Questions for Adventist

In reverse chiasm:

Answer: I (as a Seventh-day Adventist, and thus also 'we') do not ever have to "avoid the clear teachings of the Scriptures" (cited or uncited) on any matters. The question has a built in assumption (namely that I ("we") are avoiding something) which is incorrect. Condemnation and Probation are two differing things, not antagonistic to one another, but in harmony. Condemnation is for those out side of Christ Jesus. Probation is for those in Christ Jesus. For instance, a man convicted of a crime and sitting in jail is not under probation, but condemnation. A man released, though having committed a crime previous, but due to leniency (grace) is set free, is a free man, but under probation, not condemnation.

So, Romans 8:1, "no condemnation" is not antagonistic to probation. I ("we") believe that those in Christ Jesus, under probation, are not under condemnation as Romans 8:1 and elsewhere states. A perfect case of this is found in Matthew 18:21-35. The man was forgiven the whole debt, no longer under condemnation as was when brought before His Lord, but set free, and under probation. Several commentaries (non-Seventh-day Adventist) also agree with our position (which is non-OSAS, IG, etc).

All non-Seventh-day Adventists on this board are not OSAS, IG, etc and some will not agree with you, but with our position. Seventh-day Adventist, teach scriptural "assurance", but that "assurance" is separate from the non-scriptural idea of OSAS. I (right now) have assurance. I do not ever need the OSAS mindset to believe and know that I have the assurance. I (right now) have the "earnest" of the Holy Ghost. I do not yet have the fullness thereof, and though I (presently) have the "earnest", I may grieve this Person away, as had King Saul (OT) and Ananias and Sapphira (NT), among others. The "earnest" is not irrevocable (again Matthew 18, etc).

Eternal life (John 3:15, 6:54, 10:28, 12:25, 17:2-3; Romans 6:23; 1 Timothy 6:12; 1 John 5:11,13,20, etc) is always found in Christ Jesus. If I am not in Christ Jesus, I do not have eternal life. So long as I am in Christ Jesus, I have eternal life (even while under probation).

1Jn_5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.​

I must always be in Christ Jesus to have this "eternal life". Other texts show the same, that probation exists using such words as (physical and spiritual):

Luke 18:30 - "in the world to come life everlasting"
Romans 2:7 - "seek for"
Romans 5:21 - "unto"
1 Timothy 6:19 - "time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life"
Titus 1:2 - "In hope of eternal life"
Jude 1:21 "unto"
etc.
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The crown of righteousness, being eternal life, is in the hands of Jesus Christ right now, as He must hold it, until such time as He comes (for the very moment I sin here (as Adam before), the devil would take all away from me that Christ Jesus had gained, but thank God that Jesus holds it (crown) in my stead for now). Paul did not yet have this crown (nor yet still, until after his resurrection), but had the promise of it:

2Ti_4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
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In other words, eternal life is a present reality, under probation (not condemnation), and yet during this time of probation the possibility (not necessity) exists that the Crown may be given unto another (Revelation 3:11), the Holy Ghost depart forever from me (Ephesians 4:30; even that which David feared, Psalms 51:11, ie the "great transgression" - Psalms 19:13; Matthew 12:32), and I yet be in a worse condition than when I was before Christ Jesus (Hebrews 6:1-12).

I ("we') have no argument with the koine Greek, or with the simple KJB English. I agree with both, as the eternal life is always contingent, iow, conditional (as it was with Adam, Lucifer), and is always connected to faith/living-working faith (Romans 14:23; James 2 (entire); Hebrews 11:6)

Yes, I ("we") agree wholeheartedly with Ephesians 2:8-10; Titus 3:4-8, etc. Saved by (God's) grace through Faith (and that a gift from God to be exercised), but notice "works" are not excluded, but must be understood in their right place.

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Tit 3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
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No one may 'work' their way to Heaven, by any means. All enter through the "Door" (Christ Jesus) or not at all. The "works" described is neither works of the law (Galatians 3:5), neither works of the flesh (Galatians 5:19), nor works of the devil (1 John 3:8), and neither to be saved, but that which stems from God, "good works" (Matthew 19:17; Mark 18:10; Luke 18:19, "good") in Salvation, in other words while Justified (by God, in Christ Jesus), as the fruit, not the root, thereof. The "good" "fruit" of the "good works" of the tree, only demonstrate what the tree actually is. Stapling "fruit" onto a tree, does not alter the trees nature. Only God can do that (change the trees nature). That is His part. But it is not God only which has a part. Mankind, in Christ Jesus, also has their (our) part. Living/working faith. Salvation/Redemption is a co-partnership with God, Notice:

Joh_15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Php_4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.​

Obedience to the commands of God, is not for salvation (Romans 4:5). It (obedience by and through His strength provided at Calvary, Romans 5:6; Revelation 12:10) is the fruit of Salvation. It is the outworking of that which God has done and is doing in the heart. Therefore, I ("we") cannot even claim any of the "good works" as of ourselves in Salvation. Yet, we have our part to do, by taking hold of that which God provided (as God giveth the increase, 1 Corinthians 3:7).

Gal_5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.​

Thus "faith" can only "work" by "love". It is as two legs on a man. A man can have both, but without "love" they will still be impotent (though having legs, but legs that are unable to move), see the crippled at the Temple (Acts 3:6). The Crippled had two legs, but they were impotent. This is what James refers to in His material, in the 2nd chapter thereof. See Revelation 2:4-5. To leave the "love" is to become as a man with two legs (faith/works), but impotent and unable to walk uprightly (fallen into sin).

 

God does not tow man to heaven, but God has given, in salvation/redemption a work for man to do in cooperation (copartnership) with Himself. God has His part (Psalms 51:10), and we our part (given by God; Psalms 51:13-19), even as Jesus is the Highpriest (not I ("we"), yet the "congregation" has their "duty" to "do" in cooperation therewith.

2Pe_1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
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Thus the real Gospel declares that we may all have victory over every besetting sin and temptation in the here and now, in this fallen flesh (as Jesus bore to the cross).

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Php 2:14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
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God works "in"
Mankind works "out".

2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
2Pe 1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
Confirm Your Calling and Election
2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
2Pe 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
2Pe 1:12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.
2Pe 1:13 Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance;
2Pe 1:14 Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.
2Pe 1:15 Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance.

Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
Jas 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
Faith Without Works Is Dead
Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Jas 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Rev_14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

1Pe_1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
1Pe_1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Hebrews 11, really shows this wonderfully, "by faith" they "did" (worked out) this or that, as the last 3 chapters of Hebrews should rightfully be called the chapters of Faith, Hope and Love, the expansion of 1 Corinthians 13:13.
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Thus as the Bible states, so sayeth the messenger of the LORD, sister White (citations by request).

 

Seventh Day Adventist is a cult


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This series may be of use to you (Protestant), and even (Sai):



Or such as here:



These really show the Bible and SoP/ToJ on the matters you have asked about, but if not, we may continue our dialogue as we are.

 

I have heard much worse things, and to me personally, but I will wear the epithet with honour as it is in Christ Jesus:

Act_24:5 For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes:

Act_24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Act_28:22 But we desire to hear of thee what thou thinkest: for as concerning this sect, we know that every where it is spoken against.​

 

Nothing personal. Scripture is the final authority. Salvation is by grace alone thru faith alone in Christ alone plus nothing


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Not taken as such. I understand.

I agree, and so does sister White, see (in case you are interested):

Here is also the official EGW Estate material on the matter - Ellen G. White® Estate: Ellen G. White's Understanding of How Her Writings Relate to Scripture And this may be of assistance to you as well - Ellen G. White® Estate: The Seventh-day Adventist Church's Understanding of Ellen White's Authority

See finally what she said - SDA: Cult of Fear-Mongers​

Kinda depends what you mean, but I can basically agree with the sentiment on its surface. See my previous two posts for a more indepth consideration:

[1] Questions for Adventist Alofa

[2] Questions for Adventist Alofa​

 

I have a question, please:

Do the Seventh Day Adventists (SDA) have a stance or position regarding which Bible translation(s) ought to be used?

Do SDA adherents generally/primarily/exclusively tend to read/study/preach from the King James Version (KJV) of the Bible?

Thank you in advance for sharing your firsthand knowledge on this subject.

 

Sure thing, no problemo.

Kinda depends on the individual. For instance, sister White herself referring to the KJB, spoke of it as the "common version" see, Lt. 188, June 18, 1906, par. 5 and also again in MR, V.20 [Nos. 1420-1500] page 170.5 - Link

This was because by then the RV (1881-85) and ASV (1901) had been unleashed on the world.

This (KJB) was the primary book referred to in all her materials, close to 99.9%. A few others were used like Rotherham, Leeser, Boothroyd, Noyes (which most today have never even heard of, and do not use today) and also some RV (1881-85) and ASV (1901), after they arrived due to suggestion by her sons, etc., in the OT sections primarily which were pretty much KJB, and for the Psalms formatting thereof (prose), which they (sons, etc) thought looked better in print. She did not see any harm in that and went with that suggestion. For instance the Desire of Ages had very little references outside of the KJB, and same with the Great Controversy (but these books were not primarily (only) for church people, but for all). The reason for said use is explained in the type of written material that needed to read a wide as audience as possible, without having to attempt to define words which would be defined elsewhere in the KJB. In preaching, it was always the KJB. A deeper study on this and the reasons behind certain uses may be had if necessary. I have a chart and percentages listing as well as some nefarious (by others) interference in after years.

"Present Truth" ministries with the Seventh-day Adventist movement preach and teach from the KJB. This does not exclude any from using a concordance, etc.

Others which do not know any better (ignorant), or purposeful, use whatever they feel like which is often to the detriment of those using it.

If they are "Present Truth", yes. If not, they hardly ever use it. Some will use the NKJV, others NIV, others ESV and so on depending on the Pastor, teacher, personal preference, etc.

This is brief, I know, but I hope it is helpful to you. If you have any other questions feel free to ask.

 

Scripture is authoritative, authority resides in the Church and those Bishops who lead it.

 

Still open for any questions.

 

As a moderate Calvinist, I see only the need to clarify, define and magnify the gospel when dealing with cult members. I believe this is biblically the way to deal with those who without the newborn human spirit, are unable to understand the word of God. Because God has given special grace for all men to be able to understand the gospel, once this has been fully understood by the unbeliever it then becomes the role of the Holy Spirit to call them to repentance. Because it is only by hearing the gospel that the elect are saved, and they are not saved until they accept it. We cannot judge who isn’t elect and therefore continue in prayer and evangelism but it will always be the seed of the simplicity of the cross that will culminate into salvation. By persisting in arguing over doctrine with cult members all we reap is the display of the fact that although the gospel be fully comprehensive to all, none can come to the Son except the Father draws him or her.


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Just how strictly is the Saturday Sabbath observed?

In other words, what is permissible, and what is impermissible?

 

In brief (ask further as necessary), there is no such thing scripturally as "Saturday Sabbath" (but I understand what you mean). Saturday and Sabbath are two distinct (differing) timeframes. Saturday is Roman time (midnight unto midnight) and Sabbath, being the 7th day of the bible week, Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11)) is God's holy time (sunset to sunset, even unto even):

[1] Some who call themselves "Seventh-day Adventists" do not keep it holy, and shop, go to restaurants, play sports, etc. Some are ignorant (without knowledge) and follow others bad example and others presumptuous (with knowledge) and just do what they want no matter what the scripture or SoP/ToJ states.

[2] Some who call themselves "Seventh-day Adventists" go to the other extreme, and are like the Pharisees, making up their own regulations. Some are ignorant (without knowledge) and follow others bad example and others thinking they know better, and anyone not like them are condemned already. Holier than thou mindset, etc. These generally make their personal 'rules' (some truly conscientious to themselves), everyone's rules.

[3] Some are actual Seventh-day Adventists, and follow the law of God as it is in scripture, and also use the SoP/ToJ, which magnifies the Bible, to keep the Sabbath of the LORD holy (which is more about doing (allowed) than don't do (disallowed) in the commandment). What does this entail? Specifics are not many (list a few things):

[A.] Rest (physical/spiritual) from all worldly (common/profane) labour (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11; Jeremiah 17:22; Luke 23:56). This includes the preparation beforehand, in physical and spiritual things, such as putting away known sin, confessing beforehand to be clean entering in, etc.
[B.] Holy works (being helpful to those who are sick, in need, etc; Jeremiah 17:22,24,27; Luke 6:9; John 5:9,17, 7:23, 9:14; Exodus 20:8-11)
[C.] Holy convocation (gathering together, family local, family wider, family world where possible; Leviticus 23:3; Acts 13:44; Hebrews 10:25)
[D.] Worship God (Isaiah 66:23; Revelation 14:6-7,12), which can be in many ways or all together, or combination thereof (singing psalms, hymns, making melody (Ephesians 5:19; Psalms 92), praising God (Psalms 22:25), reading the scripture (Luke 4:16; Acts 17:2), study of the scriptures (Acts 17:11), and be with the LORD of the Sabbath, in heart (Mark 2:28; Luke 6:5), etc.
[E.] Prayer and praise (individual, family, corporately; Psalms 92:1)
[F.] Enjoying Creation with God and family, like a walk through nature and getting out of the city (Mark 2:23; Luke 4:1, 6:1; Acts 16:13)
[G.] Preaching, Teaching, Healing (people) and Publishing the word of God (Matthew 4:23, 9:35, 12:8; Mark 1:21, 6:2, 13:10; Luke 4:31, 6:6, 13:10; Acts 13:42, 15:21,35, 28;31; Romans 10:8; 2 Timothy 4:2)
[H.] Fellowshipping, eating together (Matthew 12:1; Mark 2:23; Luke 6:1, 14:1; Acts 2:4)
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You can also read Isaiah 56-58. It is also connected to Job 29. It is also connected to Revelation 14:6-12.

Hopefully this was helpful to you. Feel free to inquire further.

 

Do you have to confirm yourself to the full demands of the law in order to have sins blotted out finally?

 

What if you do not remember all sins ever commited, and thus were not able to confess or repent of them?

What if you decided to follow Sunday worship now?

 

What if you decided to not accept Ellen White as being inspired, not the IJ as being in Bible?

 

If I understand your question correctly (as it is asked a little oddly), the answer is, I must be found in Christ Jesus, at the end of the anti-typical Day of Atonement, to have my sins blotted out.

 

The "if" you present, would actually place blame upon the Holy Ghost Himself, unless I choose to ignore the Holy Ghost (and thus not remember on purpose, in which case I would be a lost person, clinging to known, but choosing to not acknowledge them, sins). The Holy Ghost has His part also:

Joh_14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Joh_16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:​

I cannot of myself remember all things (John 15:5). It is God which brings things to my remembrance, for God is true, the faithful witness, and the true record.

Job_16:19 Also now, behold, my witness is in heaven, and my record is on high.​

I, who know the truth of the matter from scripture, would be culpable, and as such, become an apostate to Truth, and if unrepented of, become forever lost. This says nothing of others, but only myself. God judges based upon knowledge, etc (John 3:19; James 4:17)

Yet, the question doesn't seem to understand the matter, as I am to worship God in/on every day (Exodus 20:8-11) as the 4th commandment commands. For instance, I (we as Seventh-day Adventists) gather together on many days of the week, not just on Sabbath (the 7th day). There is nothing wrong with gathering together on Sunday, but Sunday is not the Sabbath. There will yet be the issue of the Mark of the Beast being enforced soon, and thus that will be the issue. Obeying a command not of God, in the place of God's command.