Featured Who are the 'elders' and 'four beasts' of Revelation 5:8?

That is what I am saying. When Jesus arose, the thief was already there in Paradise.

"Ye shall be there (having been resurrected by me..."

3 days later was the Resurrection, the thief having been there. The thief was already in Paradise, when his body died. Immediately upon death, the soul of the thief was in Paradise. The body would return to dust.

What you are trying to say is that he missed the resurrection of Jesus, 3 days later, and I ask why? When Stephen was stoned, his soul went to Paradise immediately as well.

I guess it would have been strange if the thief's ghost was walking around with all the OT saints. It would have left a shell on the cross, but the Bible does not say his ghost walked away, when the legs were broken, and he gave up the ghost, died.

Do you not accept that Jesus was involved in a resurrection, just after telling Mary that He was about to ascend to His Father?

 

Trying to apply blanket truths on a single one time act will not work. Luke 23:42-43

42 Then he said, “Yeshua, remember me when you come as King.”
43 Yeshua said to him, “Yes! I promise that you will be with me today in Gan-‘Eden.”

The thief only asked to be remembered. Jesus did not answer back, "yes I will remember you." No, Jesus specifically gave a certain condition. Not a thought or memory lesson. Jesus clearly stated, "You will be with me." You say when, or does it even matter? Jesus said today, you say never. Jesus said yes, you say no. Why do you argue with Jesus?

Do you accept that Jesus defeated death that day?

Do you accept Abraham's bosom is no longer in sheol?

Do you accept, that even the dead saints, still have to have a glorified body?

Do you accept what Paul said. "Those who die in Christ are immediately with all the OT and NT saints"?

If yes to all of the above, are you saying the thief on the cross is all alone in a grave somewhere, waiting to be remembered?

If you say no to a single point, do you have proof in scripture? From what I have heard the last 50 years, and read of SDA, they agree to all of the above. There is no separate treatment in heaven between OT and NT human "bodies". Any separation is about (on earth) differences of doctrinal statements, of what humans who are actually alive, think and teach. Biblical interpretation has no effect on what happens in heaven. As far as I know, no one has willed heaven to change how it operates.


None of this contradicts Job. Yes Job was in the grave until that day. That day when Jesus defeated death. That day, Job was with Jesus walking around in Jerusalem. After 3.5 days they all were resurrected to heaven along with Jesus. No soul is left in darkness who knew the Lord would remember them, even Job. The thief remembered what Job said. "Remember me" was Job's prayer. The thief remembered Job's prayer, and asked the same thing Job did. Guess what? Jesus said, "YES, today, I will remember, today like Job, you will be with me."

 

Defeat, not destroy. 1 Corinthians 15:54-57

54 When what decays puts on imperishability and what is mortal puts on immortality, then this passage in the Tanakh will be fulfilled:

“Death is swallowed up in victory.

55 “Death, where is your victory?
Death, where is your sting?”

56 The sting of death is sin; and sin draws its power from the Torah;
57 but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Yeshua the Messiah!

 

2 Corinthians 5:1-10

We know that when the tent which houses us here on earth is torn down, we have a permanent building from God, a building not made by human hands, to house us in heaven.
2 For in this tent, our earthly body, we groan with desire to have around us the home from heaven that will be ours.
3 With this around us we will not be found naked.
4 Yes, while we are in this body, we groan with the sense of being oppressed: it is not so much that we want to take something off, but rather to put something on over it; so that what must die may be swallowed up by the Life.
5 Moreover, it is God who has prepared us for this very thing, and as a pledge he has given us his Spirit.
6 So we are always confident — we know that so long as we are at home in the body, we are away from our home with the Lord;
7 for we live by trust, not by what we see.
8 We are confident, then, and would much prefer to leave our home in the body and come to our home with the Lord.
9 Therefore, whether at home or away from home, we try our utmost to please him;
10 for we must all appear before the Messiah’s court of judgment, where everyone will receive the good or bad consequences of what he did while he was in the body.

Who is this all? Are all in Christ both OT and NT?

 

I have no belief. I have trust. I have thoughts. Now I act on those two things.

There is no universe and we are a middle section of a cube. The North Pole is probably the exact center of the cube. There is a sky above us and an area below us. I have not left North America, nor been higher than a normal domestic flight. I see pictures from all over, and I accept they are not lies. If Paul says there are 3 sections to heaven, then there are 3 sections. The stars are angels. Job 38:7 That would be the second heaven. Then above them would be the throne of God and the alter, and under the alter is Paradise.

The solar system was imagined by early Mesopotamia as an ode to Satan by the name of Marduk. Later the solar system was personified in Greece as Satan teamed up with them in the birth of western modern science. There is no Scripture to prove this universe is over 14 billion years old. There is much evidence in Scripture that it is only 7000 years old.

 

Yet you also fail to see the distinction between corruption and mortality. If death is defeated, there is no sting. The OT saints were held in captivity of death. They saw corruption. We do not see corruption. Death does not hold our soul in a state of corruption. Death was defeated. That was at the cross. Immortality is still future less then a year. Yet still death is not destroyed, that is not until the Lake of Fire. The rapture only finishes for those alive. Just because some will be alive, does not mean death was not defeated at the Cross. When the process is complete, Death will be swallowed up in victory. But those alive will not die, so how can you say those alive are in a different state than those dead, if victory was not defeated at the Cross?

Death is not a state in heaven, but it is a condition in hell.

 

So you agree with me the soul cannot die, nor has a body? I already stated that the soul represented God. The physical flesh represented God the Son. Our spirit which is currently in heaven is our glorified body, and it represented the Holy Spirit.

What is difficult to understand that our spirit, glorified body is the robe of white? It cannot reunite, until all in Christ are one in Him in heaven. No saint (soul) has been connected with their own spirit. The spirit is in the presence of God. The soul is in Paradise under the alter, is a ghost. A ghost that identifies who we are. What no one has mentioned is will there be two bodies, but just the glorified one. Because Paul says, all will be changed. Yes, I read the point of 3 bodies. Really? Paul did not worry about an unclothed soul. Sorry, bad interpretation.

Sleep is a Judaism term. It is mentioned in the NT because it was in their vocabulary. But sleep stopped at the Cross. It was the defeat of death. The psalmist said they would only sleep until the cross. This was hundreds of years even before the prophets. It was against the pagan belief against death being final. Satan tried to confuse the truth with this place of gods called Hades. It was half true. But was accepted as fiction just like they have all been written into science fiction again today. Death was final; soul sleep was fiction, is the pagan view. The truth was all ocult was forbidden, no mentioning the dead at all. Not that it was fiction, but reality that God said was not the concern of His chosen people. So David called it sleep, and one day his body would no longer suffer corruption.

Yes, before Christ there was soul sleep. No, not now. "We shall not sleep", all, even the firstfruits, the OT saints.

 

Well I am sure I will not be as accepted as EGW, was, but I have never claimed I was special. I just have a job like everyone in Christ. You certainly have free will to believe anything you want.

 

Answering the question of the topic, here goes who are the 24 enthroned elders clothed in WHITE RAIMENTS, and their respective NAMES:

The question is: Who are the 24 elders sat on 24 thrones? They are already enthroned around God's throne clothed in WHITE RAIMENT and they have on their heads CROWNS of gold, no? Therefore, they're already crowned, are not they? Be sure that God did choose 24 men unto which He would reveal His Word to write the books of the Old Testament.
Here goes the 24 enthroned elders showed in Revelation 4:v.4
They are the 24 messengers of the Word (the Word is God), beginning by Moses:
1 - Moses
2 - Joshua
3 - Samuel
4 - Ezra
5 - Nehemiah
6 - Job
7 - David
8 - Solomon
9 - Isaiah
10 - Jeremiah
11 - Ezekiel
12 - Daniel
13 - Hosea
14 - Joel
15 - Amos
16 - Obadiah
17 - Jonah
18 - Micah
19 - Nahum
20 - Habakkuk
21 - Zephaniah
22 - Haggai
23 - Zechariah
24 - Malachi
And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. (Which are the seven Spirits of God? Good question, no?
Rev. 4:10-12 KJV
10 The four and twenty elders fall down before Him that sat on the throne, and worship Him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their CROWNS before the throne, saying,
11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive Glory and Honour and Power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Amen.

 

And what about the 12 Apostles of the Lord? Are they already enthroned as the 24 elders which are listed above and are already enthroned in the third heaven?

By the way, are not the 12 Apostles that will Judge the twelve tribes of Israel? JESUS said they do.
Matthew 19:27-28KJV
27 Then answered Peter and said unto JESUS, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, IN THE REGENERATION when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

The Apostles are waiting their resurrection, they will be enthroned yet, even now IN THE REGENERATION, and the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory.Rev.2:v.26-27

Now unto the King Eternal, Immortal, Invisible, the only wise God, be Honour and Glory for ever and ever. Amen.

In Christ JESUS, KING of kings and LORD of lords
Oseas

 

Revelation 11:v.15-19

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

18 And the nations will be angry, and God's wrath comes, and the time of the dead, that they should be Judged, and that God gives reward unto His servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear His name, small and great; and should DESTROY them which destroy the earth.

19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

There will be EARTHQUAKES in divers PLACES from now on, I do not know in what places JESUS will do to happen them, even in places where tectonic plates inexist, understand? For example, Brazil, among others.

REMEMBER:

Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. And as JESUS sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming? and of the END of the WORLD? Mat.24:v.1-3

JESUS warning about the happennings in the beginning of the sorrows:

Mat.24:v.7-8 - 7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom(this will fulfil LITERALLY from now on): and there shall be PESTILENCES(this plague JESUS is already fulfilling literally), and FAMINES(this punishment is in the radar), and earthquakes in divers places(this I have commented above). 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Be sure that our LORD JESUS was not talking about random events caused by nature, no, was not, in fact JESUS was revealing to the disciples the events that He, Himself, with his own power, would provoke or cause in the earth in this time of the END, with the same Power that He rebuked the wind and the sea and there was a calm, and the disciples marveled, saying, What manner of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him!

JESUS is already fulfilling LITERALLY His words, and He sent first the PESTILENCE as we have seen, by the way, Habakkuk 3:v.5-6 prophesied saying: 5 Before Him went the PESTILENCE, and burning coals went forth at his feet. 6 He stood, and measured the earth: he beheld, and drove asunder the nations; and the everlasting mountains were scattered, the perpetual hills did bow: His ways are everlasting.

The next punishment in accord the word of JESUS is the FAMINE, and earthquakes will happen in divers PLACES. I repeat: honestly, I do not know what places will be chastised with earthquakes, but I am sure that they can happen even in any place where there is not tectonic plates.

These earthquakes that will be caused by the Power of JESUS from now on, will not be equal as natural phenomena through movements of tectonic plates, no, they will not be by natural phenomena. These earthquakes IN DIVERS PLACES that will be caused by JESUS, they may occur even in places where nature does not offer conditions to happen, and where it never happened, for example, Brazil is one of these places.

May our LORD God bless and keep us, and give us His protection
Amen