Featured Where was Jesus for 3 days?

Actually, Acts 2:27, in context, shows it to be an invalid assumption. Here it is with vs 29:
Acts 2:27-29 (KJV) 27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. 29 Men [and] brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

Peter explains the quote from David by saying those things had not happened to David—that he is both dead and buried. This, “dead and buried” is the equivalent of “leaving David’s soul in hell”, and “allowing David to see corruption“. So it has nothing to do with some place called paradise in a shadow land of Hades.

Plus, if David is still in hell, since those verses apply to Jesus instead of David, and David’s state hasn’t changed according to Peter, then why is Lazarus or any other denizen of hell, like the thief, who were in Abraham’s bosom, now in heaven?

Finally, Peter explains in vs 31 expressly that those words of David were meant to be about the bodily resurrection of Christ, and therefore are misused as proof of anything about what happens to the soul outside of the body.
Acts 2:31 (KJV) He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

 

You missed the point. “Today” in the interpretation I offered is describing the time of Jesus’ statement, rather than the time the thief would be with Jesus again.

 

Not actually. It was pretty obvious it was THAT day, as both Jesus & the thief died then.

 

Jesus was not in hell. He was in hades, the paradise area of it. The KJV mistranslated hades as hell. Actually, hell is the lake of fire.

 

You seem to have a hard time staying on topic. Whether hell or hades, the concept is the same. Please reread my post replacing “hell” with “hades”.

 

They're NOT the same. Hades is NOT hell. Hell is the lake of fire. That's all there is to it.

 

I didn’t say they were, though the kjv translators disagree with you. I just asked if you could reread my post replacing “hell” with “hades”. Is that outside of your capabilities?

 

I did, & nothing changes. Do you not believe Jesus when He said He & the thief would be in paradise that day ?

 

Let’s say that I’m questioning the whole soul-in-hades narrative. And if the thief on the cross wasn’t going to paradise that day, the only thing in the Bible that appears to uphold the soul-in-hades narrative is the story of the rich man and Lazarus, which is partial parable, at least.

And the Bible nowhere says paradise is part of hades. Nowhere. That’s arrived at by the combining of the two stories and by trying to make them fit together.

 

Jesus' parables were often based upon real happenings, places, & types of people. REAL righteous peoples' souls went to paradise in hades, as did Lazarus in the parable, & the REAL wicked or unsaved went to 'torments' in hades, as did the rich man in the parable.

Jesus told the repentant thief that on that day, he would be with Jesus in paradise. THAT SETTLES IT, as every word Jesus said is correct.

And ACTS 2:27 & 31 make it plain Jesus was in HADES. That, plus Jesus' own words mthat He would be in paradise, makes it plain that paradise is part of hades.

Those facts are straight from Scripture. To deny them is to deny the truth of Scripture.

 

Those “facts” are straight from your interpretation of those scriptures. To deny them is to disagree with you.

That puts you in the place of God, when you won’t allow even God to have a different meaning from the one you’ve chosen.

 

When/where did God give a different meaning for the Scriptures in this discussion "

HUH ?

Those Scriptures are quite plain. When Jesus said "paradise" & had it written, He meant PARADISE. When He had Luke write "hades', He meant HADES.

YOU are trying to make them say something different ! SHAME ON YOU !

 

And as I pointed out, according to Peter, David has not benefited from the same thing the thief benefited from. So why is the thief different from David? Don’t we want our interpretation to be informed by the whole of scripture?

 

The Spirit was in and out before the thief even died. Yet no one could ascend to heaven for 3.5 days. NNE WAS In hell or Abraham's bosom. Abraham's bosom was not Paradise. NNE WAS in Paradise or sheol or whatever you call the place of the dead. Paradise is not the place of the dead. Paradise is the place of the LIVING!!!. The thief who died hours after Jesus did was immediately with God in heaven, under the alter, in Paradise, the Garden of Eden. God told him today, not 3 days later, today he was with God.

The thief was the first NT saint who upon death, was absent from the sinful body of flesh, and immediately present with God, under the alter, in Paradise the Garden of Eden, where no angel no longer stood guard. God Himself the Lamb restored life, not death, death was defeated, to Adam's descendants allowing them back into the Garden of Eden, Paradise that was always in heaven, after it was removed before the Flood of Noah. We will not receive our human spirit until the whole church is gathered as one, in the opening of the 5th and 6th seals. Then for the church, death will be swallowed up in victory. The cross removed the sting of death. Humans were no longer separated from God. The seals will remove the spiritual separation given to Adam as punishment. Then the Lamb's book of life will be opened, and names removed during the rest of the harvest leading up to the Second Coming.

So for 3 days, Jesus was walking around Jerusalem with many OT saints waiting to ascend to the Father, and Paradise; where the thief on the cross had already been waiting himself.

That was the first and only resurrection of the church age. The rapture is not a resurrection. The dead are already raised in Jesus Christ. Those alive in Christ will meet the Lord in the air. The body of flesh dying and being replaced in mid air. Being glorified in the presence of God and literally the whole world. That is why those left behind will be crying out in fear. Especially those who now realize, they did not freely choose God. They can now only see God's wrath. Paul says the dead in Christ will rise first. They have been rising each time one dies, because there is no place in sheol for their soul to go. They go to heaven under the alter and that is Paradise.

 

I’ll try to explain my position again, @robycop3. If Jesus said “I tell you today, ‘You will be with me in Paradise.’” the word “today” is an expression of when the thief was saved—that day on the cross when he confessed his sin and asked Jesus to save him (“remember me”), rather than when Jesus would see him again.

Your view uses that same passage to tell us both things, when Jesus would see the thief again as well as where Paradise was located at the time. But if “Paradise” was NEVER located in hades, which seems likely from the rest of scripture, then we have to look for a different interpretation.

Logically, “hades” is not, nor has it ever been seen to be, like “Paradise”.

 

I’m not satisfied with that idea, because Jesus was to be in the tomb for 3 days. He didn’t say He would be resurrected immediately. Lazarus was resurrected before that time, as we’re others, so there are already more resurrections than you allow for.

Plus, Paul was definitely speaking to those in the church age when he wrote 1 Thess 4:
1 Thessalonians 4:15 (KJV) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that *we* which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

 

Derf: "what if the comma, not in the Greek, were moved. Then it says,
Luke 23:43 And he said to him, 'Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise'....The word “today” is an expression of when the thief was saved—that day on the cross".

The one big problem with this interpretation concerns what translations actually move the comma as suggedted. So far as I know, the *only* one that actually does that is the JW' s New World Translation — and there only to support their peculiar view of the state of the soul between death and resurrection.

 

Jesus had 6 parts to who He was. Jesus was fully God, the Son, and His Spirit. Yes the Holy Spirit. Jesus has a body of flesh, a soul, and his earthly spirit. Jesus was not separated from who he was as God, nor as man. The earthly body was in the tomb. At death, everything happened at the same point in time. The only thing left on the cross was the body of flesh. Though not of sin, or by sin, it still would just disappear in the tomb. Jesus' soul, God, and Holy Spirit were back in heaven and Paradise was opened. The thief met Jesus upon his death a few hours later in Paradise. Jesus Christ as spirit did go to Abraham's bosom and immediately freed all in Abraham's bosom.

It was a ghost like body or what a soul would look like in an intangible form. It was not physical, but you could still identify who the soul was. It would be the same as when Saul requested the witch to bring Samuel out of the dead. They saw a Samuel, but no physical body.

Now about Acts 2. Peter claimed to know that David was a literal person in a tomb. It was all destroyed in 70AD. The point was not that David did not ascend. The point was that David did not ascend when David died. Peter and the disciples were not given the details, nor did any one go back and change Peter's speech. If they did change it, then Peter would have declared the OT saints had ascended. In fact, Matthew was the only record of the event. Matthew 27:51-54

51 At that moment the parokhet in the Temple was ripped in two from top to bottom; and there was an earthquake, with rocks splitting apart.
52 Also the graves were opened, and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life;
53 and after Yeshua rose, they came out of the graves and went into the holy city, where many people saw them.

Matthew claims they came out when Jesus died and rose at the same time. It was the spirit, because this same spirit met Mary at the tomb, and a few others who did not really recognize him, because they were spiritually blinded, until God allowed them to see. He told Mary that Sunday morning, that He had not yet ascended. The reason was they had to wait for the end of the 3.5 days. No one was given permission to write that all OT Saints ascended at that time. Peter gave his speech. Luke recorded it to the best of what was remembered. The Holy Spirit did not correct Peter's point. If Peter did actually say that all the OT saints had ascended, the Holy Spirit did not allow it to be put in Acts. If it was changed later, it still would have kept the fact on a need to know basis. Paul explains, 1 Corinthians 15:22-28

22 For just as in connection with Adam all die, so in connection with the Messiah all will be made alive.
23 But each in his own order: the Messiah is the firstfruits; then those who belong to the Messiah, at the time of his coming;
24 then the culmination, when he hands over the Kingdom to God the Father, after having put an end to every rulership, yes, to every authority and power.
25 For he has to rule until he puts all his enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy to be done away with will be death,
27 for “He put everything in subjection under his feet.” But when it says that “everything” has been subjected, obviously the word does not include God, who is himself the one subjecting everything to the Messiah.
28 Now when everything has been subjected to the Son, then he will subject himself to God, who subjected everything to him; so that God may be everything in everyone.

Paul was correcting the notion that no resurrection could happen, but also explains that one did happen. The common interpretation of "at his coming" is future, but that is not what Paul said. He was referring to the time Jesus was just on earth. The firstfruits were the whole of Abraham's bosom. Verse 23 covered the first coming. Verse 24 was the final day of the week of the Second Coming. Paul goes on to explain the end time "resurrection", but what changes in 2 Corinthians 5:6-8?

6 So we are always confident — we know that so long as we are at home in the body, we are away from our home with the Lord;
7 for we live by trust, not by what we see.
8 We are confident, then, and would much prefer to leave our home in the body and come to our home with the Lord.

If Paul stated in 1 Corinthians 15:42-45, why is there a misunderstanding that he had to say the above in 2 Corinthians 5? He likened it to a seed. He likened it to a different body. He said it was the work of a quickening spirit. Why would the soul be left in limbo, there not being an Abraham's bosom. There is not a Christ's bosom in sheol. A new seed, a firstfruit, a fruit, a new body, a ghost, not our spirit yet. This is absent from this body which goes back to dust never to be seen again, it is a New Body, changed by a quickening spirit, but still a soul with a new body, waiting under the alter, for a robe of white, Revelation 6:11

"Each of them was given a white robe; and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow-servants should be reached, of their brothers who would be killed, just as they had been."

Paul in 1 Corinthians 15 said that the robe of white would not happen till the rapture event of live people, not a resurrection of live people. Live people are not physically dead. Those dead in Christ, 2 Corinthians 5, are with their soul under the alter. No resurrection. Saying that they would rise first is still correct. They have been doing that one by one, because, absent from this body is to be present with the Lord. Dying to the flesh is dying for Christ's sake, no matter if it is natural or as martyrs. We are dying for Christ, because we are dying to the flesh as a seed planted in the ground, becomes something new, by a quickening spirit. Just like Jesus' dead human flesh had to decay and go back to dust. It was changed, and Jesus had to wait 3.5 days. But all at that time were given new bodies, because that is what the Atonement allowed. No longer the seed of Adam in the Garden as disobedience, but as the seed of the new Adam quickened by a living spirit of God. It will be completed soon, as now is the time come for the opening of the seals, and the harvest of all souls. The church (those alive) and the culmination will be receiving their glorified bodies (robes of white). This is the end where mortal will once more be an immortal spirit. Body, soul, and spirit will be one in a glorified body.

There will be a final resurrection as Jesus Promised, because some will die in the 1000 year reign. I realize that some limit all humanity to one final resurrection, but Paul, and John give way more information than Jesus taught during his earthly ministry. Jesus was explaining to living Jews how Jesus interacted with living Jews. After the 7th seal is opened, the Lamb will be dealing with living Jews directly again. He will have 144K Jewish male disciples this time. The whole world with Jews all over the world, will be covered. Those 3.5 days were very important to the change between the house of Jacob and the church. Now Jesus the Lamb will have to work in reverse between an apostate "name only" religious group left behind from the church and the harvest of sheep and goats, wheat and tares. Guess who will be the Sadducees and Pharisees now?

 

Agreed that people will translate according to their presuppositions. Is it possible that the majority opinion is wrong, leading to most translations putting the comma before “ today”?

 

David was under the Old Covenant, while the thief was under the New Covenant. And David is now in paradise, same as that thief.

Acts 2:34“For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself: ‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand,