Featured Does God allow us the free will to choose Him?

Good point, satan was a liar and murderer from the beginning, certainly a liar and deceiver prior to creation of mankind.

I notice his lie to himself (to be like God) was repeated to Eve.

Thanks

peace to you

 

It was not the Jews fault. The church could have set up a kingdom from the ground up, no matter how long it took.

But Satan offered a kingdom just like the Hebrews who wanted a kingdom before it was time. In fact the church caved in faster than the Hebrews.

 

Satan had 1000 years of thinking, just waiting to mess up humankind. It did take 30 years. From the beginning is about 1000 years off. The Lord's Day, the day God rested from creation before creating the Garden of Eden, was an actual 1000 years of perfection. Yet to God, it was only a day.

Adding that Satan was a liar and deciever before the 6th day is not in the Bible. That is just an interpretation without all the facts. All was still perfect at the beginning of the 7th day. Adam did not disobey on the 7th or 8th day. The Garden of Eden had not been created yet. The Garden was created 1000 years later, when God started to create again.

The Sabbath was a Lord's Day. That means it was not 24 literal hours. It just means some time in the future would be the 8th day of God creating again. God started creating after taking one created on the 6th day, and calling this one person Adam. It happened on earth 1000 years after the 6th day.

 

You obviously are not convinced of your position. That’s fine it’s a milk doctrine. Move onto the meat of the word and leave off on this. The doctrine of election presents an antinomy. Just like the trinity is an antinomy we have to believe scripture and not try to make it make sense to us. Do infants die because of sin? Yes they do. They had no free will to choose God as they were born dead to him. Does that make sense? Does that make God guilty of iniquity? No and no. But we are created beings and from our vantage point we cannot know what is good as God knows good nor do we understand fairness as God understands it. We are completely lost and already condemned and headed for hell at conception.

 

Heaven is a temporal abode for believers. Man’s final abode will be here, on earth.

 

I am sorry Sir, but your views run contrary to mine. For example the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God refers to the abode of God, whether in us as indwelt, or in the spiritual realm, or on the new earth.

 

ME, in discussing the idea of choice in response to hearing the Good News, I encountered an impasse due to differing definitions. The idea of willing apart from doing appears foreign to the Calvinistic mindset; agency seems inherent in their understanding of will. While it might raise other issues, Philippians 2:13 clearly splits them: “For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” Except for their melding of willing and doing and a literal metaphor of a spiritually dead body, they haven’t a case. But make no mistake, those two will not be dislodged through logical reasoning, mainly because they cannot imagine that the Almighty Sovereign God could sovereignly ordain a choice without sacrificing sovereignty or glory. To them, there is no distinction between selfishly recognizing one’s desperate need for an unattainable salvation and saving oneself by the finished work of Christ. Don’t sweat it.

 

This is not biblical doctrine though. It is of Satan and leads to confusion. Probably best quote verses, before making blanket statements. Infants have no choice because they cannot reason, not because of free will. Babies make lot of free will choices. They cry and bend the will of those around it. One of the first thing a baby learns is what is will, and how it changes. They are not forced to ram their will into other human's will. They experiment and learn the environment around them. It is free will in action. Only old minds set in deep grooves have issues with free will. Some times they cannot even tell the difference in free will and their own will. The lines are too blurred.

 

The kingdom of heaven is multifaceted yes, but there is the literal kingdom of Israel under the messiah that was offered to the nation of Israel by Jesus.

 

Well, the “lie” of satan to Eve was that Eve would be “like God” in reference to knowing good and evil. It is reasonable to me that means they could choose the good and reject evil, just like God. That is an example of free will, which only God has.

Concerning the long post, if God looked through time and chose those who used their “free will” to accept Christ, then you have God responding to man in granting salvation. That is works.

If man responds to what God, Holy Spirit has done in drawing, convicting etc..., that is grace.

Any influence of God Holy Spirit in the salvation process undermines the concept of free will.

peace to you

 

It's not imaginary.
God's choice of people to salvation is called, "election", and it very much is in the Bible:

Ephesians 1:4-5
Romans 8:28-30
2 Thessalonians 2:13-14.
Psalms 65:4.
Titus 1:1.
Acts of the Apostles 13:48.
1 Peter 1:2
1 Peter 2:9.
2 Timothy 1:9.
Romans 9.
Matthew 24:13 <---- Israel.
John 17:2 <----- Jesus only gives eternal life to as many as the Father gives Him, i.e. salvation is limited to a group.
Romans 11:2.
Luke 18:7.
Mark 13:27.
Galatians 1:15.
1 Peter 5:13.
2 Timothy 2:10.

There's also context that needs to be established.
For example:

" But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man." ( Hebrews 2:9 )

Who is the "every man" here?
All men?
One would think so if that is all of the information that we have...
But it isn't.

The chapter goes on to establish that the "every man" being spoken of in verse 9 is the "many sons" in verse 10.
"They who are sanctified" in verse 11.
"My brethren" in verse 12.
"The children which He has given me" in verse 13 ( Please see John 6:39, John 6:65, John 17:2 as cross references ).
"The children" in verse 14.
"His brethren" in verse 17.

 

Not to choose to follow Christ, we do not.
The Bible is clear...

No man seeks God in and of ourselves:

" as it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 there is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat [is] an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 whose mouth [is] full of cursing and bitterness:
15 their feet [are] swift to shed blood:
16 destruction and misery [are] in their ways:
17 and the way of peace have they not known:
18 there is no fear of God before their eyes. " ( Romans 3:10-18 ).

What's more, we as believers are not born again of our will, but of God's will ( John 1:13, James 1:18, John 6:29, Philippians 1:29 ).
Yes, I agree that from our perspective, we chose to believe.
But from God's perspective, He was the one who opened our hearts so that we would "hear" His words and believe them ( Acts of the Apostles 16:14 ).

All glory and praise goes to the Lord for His unspeakable gift of eternal life.

 

Do you realize that if this were true, this makes salvation a reward for making the right choice?
But the Bible states that it is a gift ( Romans 6:23 ).

The Lord will not have any of His children to stand on their own merits.
We stand on His mercy and grace ( Romans 11:5-6, Titus 3:5-6 ) alone, with no works of righteousness to show for us having gained God's favor.

Belief is a work and it is a work of righteousness ( because it is a sin not to believe, John 16:9 ), but it is, ultimately, a work of God ( John 6:29 ), and it is given in the behalf of Christ to believe and to suffer for His sake ( Philippians 1:29 ).
Yes, we do the believing.
No, we don't believe to "get saved", we believe because we are saved and because God has performed a miracle of the new birth in us.


May God bless you greatly.

 

Here's how I see your position.

God has a gift. He places that gift down on a sidewalk and he walks away. Some people may try to spruce up the gift and wrap it up in a way that would entice someone to stop and look at it while others may actually try to dirty up the gift. God stays away and lets humans do whatever they wish to the gift. People who pass by can look over the gift and size it up to see if they want to take it, but it's entirely up to them. Ultimately, some who take the chance and use their reasoning will take the gift and have eternal life. All those who walk away from the gift will die in their sins.

Here's how I see my position.

Humans are locked deep down in an inescapable prison with no light. They live in this inescapable prison their whole life. God, has a gift prepared specifically for them, with their name on it. God knows where they are located, in this prison, and he breaks into the prison, finds this specific person and gives that person the gift of redemption that is wrapped in glorious beauty and has that person's name written in gold. God gives this specific person, whom he has chosen, the gift prepared for them and then delivers them from their prison to take them upward into the light so they can forevermore live in the light.

Now, which of these positions lifts up the goodness and glory of God?

I once held your position. I can never go back to that position that demeans my savior and lifts my self up to prominence. I just can't do it. It grieves my soul to think of going back and it grieves my soul to see others still living in that position, which demeans their savior. MissE, I honestly and lovingly implore you to leave that position behind and know that God chose you out of the good and gracious love he has specifically for you.

 

It seems like you are confused on the fall of Adam,, and what the gospel is, and the work of the Spirit. Other than that it is okay.

 

Where does faith come from?

 

Election makes perfect sense to the church.