Does God allow us the free will to choose Him?

[Miss E]

ME, in discussing the idea of choice in response to hearing the Good News, I encountered an impasse due to differing definitions. The idea of willing apart from doing appears foreign to the Calvinistic mindset; agency seems inherent in their understanding of will. While it might raise other issues, Philippians 2:13 clearly splits them: “For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” Except for their melding of willing and doing and a literal metaphor of a spiritually dead body, they haven’t a case. But make no mistake, those two will not be dislodged through logical reasoning, mainly because they cannot imagine that the Almighty Sovereign God could sovereignly ordain a choice without sacrificing sovereignty or glory. To them, there is no distinction between selfishly recognizing one’s desperate need for an unattainable salvation and saving oneself by the finished work of Christ. Don’t sweat it.

give me scripture and not your own wisdom please

I consider myself a CHRIST-follower and don’t hold to a man made position I stand upon Gods truth

 

[Miss E]

Well, the “lie” of satan to Eve was that Eve would be “like God” in reference to knowing good and evil. It is reasonable to me that means they could choose the good and reject evil, just like God. That is an example of free will, which only God has.

Concerning the long post, if God looked through time and chose those who used their “free will” to accept Christ, then you have God responding to man in granting salvation. That is works.

If man responds to what God, Holy Spirit has done in drawing, convicting etc..., that is grace.

Any influence of God Holy Spirit in the salvation process undermines the concept of free will.

peace to you

Quote scripture please and stop throwing me your rubbish twisted interpretation of works and grace.

 

[Miss E]

Do you realize that if this were true, this makes salvation a reward for making the right choice?
But the Bible states that it is a gift ( Romans 6:23 ).

The Lord will not have any of His children to stand on their own merits.
We stand on His mercy and grace ( Romans 11:5-6, Titus 3:5-6 ) alone, with no works of righteousness to show for us having gained God's favor.

Belief is a work and it is a work of righteousness ( because it is a sin not to believe, John 16:9 ), but it is, ultimately, a work of God ( John 6:29 ), and it is given in the behalf of Christ to believe and to suffer for His sake ( Philippians 1:29 ).
Yes, we do the believing.
No, we don't believe to "get saved", we believe because we are saved and because God has performed a miracle of the new birth in us.


May God bless you greatly.

Faith is needed to believe , without it God can’t save anyone who doesn’t believe on His son.

love is a relationship it takes BOTH parties involved to love the other

May God tear down your prideful thinking and bless your heart

 

[Miss E]

Here's how I see your position.

God has a gift. He places that gift down on a sidewalk and he walks away. Some people may try to spruce up the gift and wrap it up in a way that would entice someone to stop and look at it while others may actually try to dirty up the gift. God stays away and lets humans do whatever they wish to the gift. People who pass by can look over the gift and size it up to see if they want to take it, but it's entirely up to them. Ultimately, some who take the chance and use their reasoning will take the gift and have eternal life. All those who walk away from the gift will die in their sins.

Here's how I see my position.

Humans are locked deep down in an inescapable prison with no light. They live in this inescapable prison their whole life. God, has a gift prepared specifically for them, with their name on it. God knows where they are located, in this prison, and he breaks into the prison, finds this specific person and gives that person the gift of redemption that is wrapped in glorious beauty and has that person's name written in gold. God gives this specific person, whom he has chosen, the gift prepared for them and then delivers them from their prison to take them upward into the light so they can forevermore live in the light.

Now, which of these positions lifts up the goodness and glory of God?

I once held your position. I can never go back to that position that demeans my savior and lifts my self up to prominence. I just can't do it. It grieves my soul to think of going back and it grieves my soul to see others still living in that position, which demeans their savior. MissE, I honestly and lovingly implore you to leave that position behind and know that God chose you out of the good and gracious love he has specifically for you.

God hasn’t shown me in that your view is true to the one I hold to. Sorry brother I just won’t accept God chose certain people to life and others to hell that paints God as an unloving God, we choose where we go based on our faith in Jesus

Your view puffs up the chosen peoples pride and to me it makes you look at others as if you’re better and we’re all the same, each one has a choice, just because God didn’t convict your heart to choose him makes them any less loved than the ones that enter into heaven

 

[Miss E]

Where does faith come from?

My faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of God which all men need to hear from us preachers and evangelists to give them the opportunity to exercise their faith to believe or reject the Gospel of Jesus Christ amen

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

give me scripture and not your own wisdom please

I consider myself a CHRIST-follower and don’t hold to a man made position I stand upon Gods truth

Did you understand what I was getting at? And I did quote Scripture.

 

[Miss E]

Did you understand what I was getting at? And I did quote Scripture.

Let me ask you this, does God condemn people who don’t choose Him (or in your case who he does not choose based on nothing but the fact God chose to not pick them as His chosen) or do people condemn themselves when they do not have faith to believe ?

If God is all loving , yet also all holy, how could you say God sends people to hell based on his own choice? That paints an awfully wicked God to me to sent whom he pleases to hell without giving them freedom to choose, that is, a chance to choose Faith and be changed by God and given a new heart of flesh. Is that the position you and these others stand for?

God condemns the lost or do the lost condemn themselves and if the lost do indeed condemn themselves, doesn’t that mean they chose to die in their sins? Or did God, being not all loving, throw them down to hell for not having faith in Jesus?

 

[Sai]

oh so you are one of the people that believe all babies go to hell since they didn’t have a chance to choose God? Age of accountability and the verse where Jesus says the kingdom of heaven is for the little ones just flies out the window to you hm?

Yes

 

[Miss E]

Yes

That’s a wicked wicked doctrine to hold to, but who am I to judge ?

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Let me ask you this, does God condemn people who don’t choose Him (or in your case who he does not choose based on nothing but the fact God chose to not pick them as His chosen) or do people condemn themselves when they do not have faith to believe ?

If God is all loving , yet also all holy, how could you say God sends people to hell based on his own choice? That paints an awfully wicked God to me to sent whom he pleases to hell without giving them freedom to choose, that is, a chance to choose Faith and be changed by God and given a new heart of flesh. Is that the position you and these others stand for?

God condemns the lost or do the lost condemn themselves and if the lost do indeed condemn themselves, doesn’t that mean they chose to die in their sins? Or did God, being not all loving, throw them down to hell for not having faith in Jesus?

In other words, no, you did not understand my post at all. Hint: Not everyone is attacking your position.

 

[Sai]

That’s a wicked wicked doctrine to hold to, but who am I to judge ?

Doctrine? Where does it say that all babies go to heaven? There is no scripture that teaches an age of accountability.

 

[Miss E]

In other words, no, you did not understand my post at all. Hint: Not everyone is attacking your position.

Answer my question.

 

[Miss E]

Doctrine? Where does it say that all babies go to heaven? There is no scripture that teaches an age of accountability.

And you really believe an all loving God would damn a baby without the ability to see or speak In it’s mother’s womb ?
Disgraceful view on God

 

[Miss E]

In other words, no, you did not understand my post at all. Hint: Not everyone is attacking your position.

Sorry if you were agreeing with me it seems almost everyone hear is against my view. So my bad I got a bit emotionally charged, but hey I am a woman

 

[Sai]

And you really believe an all loving God would damn a baby without the ability to see or speak In it’s mother’s womb ?
Disgraceful view on God

You’re guilty of what you’ve accused me of. I said it’s too much work to go back into the archives and list every scripture that led me to become a 4 point Calvinist. You claimed I was relying on my own words vs the scripture. Your view of an age of accountability found nowhere in scripture is in your head. Furthermore, you’re opinion on a “loving God” is from the created’s vantage point and is based in human emotions.

If I go to a park and give a $5 bill to 5 homeless people there and don’t give to the other 5 homeless in the park am I being unfair?

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Sorry if you were agreeing with me it seems almost everyone hear is against my view. So my bad I got a bit emotionally charged, but hey I am a woman

I wasn't just agreeing with you but mentioning some of the roadblocks that make the discussion nigh impossible. There are certain terms and certain concepts that just won't match up, as people are starting from different premises.

 

[Dave G]

Faith is needed to believe , without it God can’t save anyone who doesn’t believe on His son.

Very true, my sister.

The Bible says that faith is necessary to salvation...
It is needed for us as men to believe on His Son and it is needed for us to endure all of our trials and tribulations in this life and keep believing.
Because of it, God credits our faith in His Son as righteousness ( Romans 4 ).

Without faith, it is impossible to please God ( Hebrews 11:6 )...

My faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of God

Romans 10:8-10, Romans 10:17.
Again, Amen.
But The Lord Jesus Christ is the author and finisher of that faith ( Hebrews 12:2 ).

Yet, that same faith is something that not all men have ( 2 Thessalonians 3:2 ), because it is a gift ( Ephesians 2:8 ).
It is also a fruit of the Spirit ( Galatians 5:22 ).
Therefore, faith is from God via the Spirit of God.

However, God can and does save people apart from us performing any action or set of actions in order to merit His favor.
Eternal life is, without a doubt, a gift, not a reward for making the right choice.

love is a relationship it takes BOTH parties involved to love the other

Amen.

May God tear down your prideful thinking and bless your heart

This has nothing to do with pride, sister.

This is about acknowledging His right to save whom He chooses, for that is what the Bible describes salvation as...
A product of His mercy and grace, not our efforts at pleasing Him.
In fact, election bypasses human pride completely, and we then find ourselves abased in His presence...
The recipients of a true gift, and not something that our choice of Him would have ever merited.

The Bible is very specific about our condition before Him as men...
We hate Him and love our sin ( Romans 1:18-32, Romans 3:10-18, John 3:19-20 and many others ).

The Lord Jesus Himself said that we are to marvel not, that the world hates us...
Why?
Because it hated Him first ( 1 John 3:13 ), and before we believed the Gospel, He didn't matter to us, did He?
I speak from experience.

At 12 years old before I heard the preaching of the cross in a Baptist church, I did not care that I was a sinner, neither did I care that my sins offended Him.
That all changed the day I heard His words, but it took many years for me to start loving Him for saving me.

That very same book tells us why we love Him as believers...
Because He first loved us ( 1 John 4:19 ).
Remember that.

Our will would have been to continue on in our sins ( Romans 1:30-32 )...
We would have been as others are, dead in our sins with no care about God ( Ephesians 4:17-19 ).
But He loved us, even when we were dead in those sins ( Romans 5:8, Ephesians 2 ) and didn't care one bit about Him or His ways.


May God bless you greatly in the coming years, and in your continued studies of His precious words.

 

[Katarina Von Bora]

Ya'll are very misguided.




The clear teaching of Scripture is that God chose each one for Salvation based on the choices He knew we would one day make - in respect of His offer of salvation, which by grace through faith in Christ.

Back atcha!

Where in the Bible does it teach that God chooses us based on a decision, He knew we would make? No where at all.

Your links don't identify who wrote what and based on what? But they did teach that Christians are chosen by God at least 4 times.

Don't add to scripture.

 

[Katarina Von Bora]

Faith is needed to believe , without it God can’t save anyone who doesn’t believe on His son.

love is a relationship it takes BOTH parties involved to love the other

May God tear down your prideful thinking and bless your heart

Where does Faith come from?

 

[Iconoclast]

oh so you are one of the people that believe all babies go to hell since they didn’t have a chance to choose God? Age of accountability and the verse where Jesus says the kingdom of heaven is for the little ones just flies out the window to you hm?

mt18.
6 But whoso shall offend one of
these little ones which believe in me,
it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.