Featured The Foreknowledge of God Put in Biblical Context

Thanks atpollard for your comments. My answer to you is to remind you that the doctrine of foreknowledge is a NT doctrine. It is not in the OT. My goal is to understand this doctrine by going to places it is mentioned, consider the context, pray for enlightenment and believe what I read.

I began the op by getting a biblical statement of who the scriptures are saying were foreknown. When I read Romans 11:1&2 I could not ignore the fact that he was not speaking of individuals being foreknown, he was speaking of God’s people and then he left no doubt about who God’s people were. They were the physical seed of Abraham, offspring of one of the 12 tribes of Israel. The language is clear and plain and unambiguous. It spells it right out.

Let me quote these verses again to see if you will at least agree with this.

Romans 11:1-2
1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.

You notice the first three words in verse 1? Why might someone get the idea that God has cast away his people? Well it is because of what he had just said about the gentiles in the last verses of chapter 10. Read it and see what you think;

Romans 10:19-21
19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.
20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

The imagery here is a father stretching out his arms and asking his son to come to him. We can all identify with that. We have done the same to our own children. Israel would not come and so in chapter 11 he ask the question. Hath God cast away his people Israel whom he knew before the present age after the operative principle of divine dealing with them through the Mosaic Law had ended and a new principle had been established. Because they refused to come God divided them into two groups, the believers and the unbelievers. The larger group, the unbelievers were called Israel and the small group of believers, the remnant were called the remnant according to the election of grace. The purpose of God in this age was to build a “house” for his Son, a dwelling place for the Holy Ghost, a temple if you will through his people, Israel. They were a corporate entity from the very beginning of their existence through Jacob and in Exodus 4 they are said to be the firstborn son of God. That is they were born of the flesh. God made provision for them through Christ for them to be born of the Spirit as a collective one. However, they refused Christ. You can read about this in the first two sermons in the Christian Era by Peter in Acts 2 and 3 where he is calling on every one of Israel as a collective whole to receive the Spirit in the name of Jesus Christ who was risen from the dead and gone back to heaven awaiting their full collective conversion, which should have happened by Acts 7. You should read the history in Acts 1-7 and compare it to the theology of Romans 7:1 through Rom 11:12 for a better opportunity to understand God and his works.

Now, for a historical perspective that will help with the sense of it all. Romans was written by Paul from Corinth in 58 AD. The history that had passed when he wrote the epistle was Acts 1-18. This is the seventh epistle and the sixth of the Pauline epistles. James was the first of the NT epistles. Twenty eight years had passed since Christ ascended to heaven and 18 years had passed since the gentiles had been included. The reason that God is fulfilling his purpose of forming his church, the bride of Christ, with Jews and gentiles is given as unbelief of those he foreknew in OT times, Israel. The gentiles are then included that his house might be full. When it is full Christ will come for his bride. After that, the environment on earth will be such that all Israel will call on him and be saved. See rom 11:25-36.

The scriptures are logical and makes perfect since when one begins to think like God thinks, aided by his Spirit.

Luke 14:16-24
16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many:
17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready.
18 And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused.
19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused.
20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.
21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.
22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room.
23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.
24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.

 

Ninevites are Shemites and represent the ten northern tribes of Israel in the prophecy of Jonah. God did not visit the Ninevites merely as a conversation piece but he did typify his end times salvation of his own people in the last days. Who do you think carried Ephraim away and where do you think they carried them to? Who do you think James was meaning when he addressed his epistle to the twelve tribes of Israel scattered abroad and Peter when he addressed his two epistles to the strangers in the area of Turkey, asia minor? The prophecy of Hosea is addressed to these ten tribes before they are displaced by the Assyrians in 721 BC with the warning that they are "not my people" but with the sure hope that where it was said they are not my people, there shall they be called the children of the living God and will be reunited with Judah and both will be one again. To be children of God requires a new birth. Jonah is the typology for this event. In our day and age in which we live this prophecy has not yet occurred. This is the other flock of sheep that Jesus mentions in John 10.

You have no idea how blind Calvinism makes you. You know there was a great rift between Judah and Samaria during the days of Jesus.See John 4 where Jesus seems to think that the Samaritans are his people too. I remind you that no one in the OT was born again. It is a time of preparation.


Heb 3:10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.

 

Sorry, Atpollard, God did not know you are choose you except in the context of his omniscience, before you were born. God did not even choose you to be born. Whom he did choose is Jesus Christ and whoever the Spirit baptized into his body from those who were born and then born again following the death, burial, and resurrection of his Son.

God did not even choose you to be born physically. Your parents made that choice. You will immediately think that parents cannot make that choice. My answer to that is to ask if you have ever heard of birth control? Have you ever practiced it? If you have you don't really believe in the sovereignty of God in the number of children you have. You are helping him out with his choices by imposing your restrictions upon him. I am guessing you are an average person with two children. God said the blessed man is he that has his quiver full of arrows that he can shoot out into the world.

We live under natural laws. Births are in the natural order of things and can be circumvented. When God has circumvented them it is for his own purposes and they are called miracles when he does it. There have been miraculous births but they are not the norm.

Calvinism is not generally in touch with reality.

 

These are two excellent questions,Marooncat79. I am so glad you brought them up.

What is frustrating about Calvinism is that they do not know what salvation is. Without Jesus Christ and his work on the cross no one could be saved from the penalty of sin, which is the second death in the lake of fire forever. On other posts I have proven from the scriptures in their context that God defines salvation as receiving the Spirit into our mortal bodies through faith in what God said that was accomplished through the earthly ministry of Jesus Christ. If this could have been accomplished before Christ came then one could say that the work of Christ was in vain. Scripture makes that deduction as well. Here;

Gal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, (life is God in you in the person of the Spirit) verily righteousness (another synonym for the Spirit of Christ) should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

So, what about OT saints who were justified believers in what God said to them? Two passages address this question directly.

Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his (Christ Jesus) righteousness: that he (God) might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

(33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us Rom 8:)

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.


Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.


Matt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


Lk 1:77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people (Israel in context) by the remission of their sins,


LK 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.


Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Those in the OT who believed what God said to them were justified and their faith, believing, was imputed to them for righteousness but their sins were not remitted. The shed blood of Jesus Christ is the only thing that can take away sin.In the NT, after Jesus Christ shed his blood on the cross, his blood took away our sins and we receive the Holy Spirit into our mortal bodies. The Holy Ghost indwelling us is our righteousness.and sin can not condemn us .The blood of Jesus washes sin away and the Holy Ghost can now abide in us and we can abide "in Christ" that is, in his body and become one with him. The OT believers who were in paradise has their sins remitted through his blood and their souls taken to heaven. according to Eph 4. Ephesians teaches how Christians are in Christ and Colossians teaches how Christ is in us. Both are mysteries that must be revealed to the mind by the Spirit. This will remain a mystery to the natural man.

jOHN 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

God gives to Christ those whom the Spirit indwells.

The only way a man can be saved:
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Re 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

If your bible does not say this then you have been snookered. I hope this is enlightening.

 

God purposely raised up a people through Abraham through whom he could make himself known to the world as the one true God and could redeem the rest of the world through them. Think of humanity in the first 2000 years of history before Abraham as being a polluted river. God diverted a small stream away so he could purify it and then turn it back into the river downstream, thus purifying the whole river. That is God's plan with his people Israel. He made covenants with these people nationally that is still in force today but have not yet been realized. They will be in the future. In the OT time Israel is said of God to collectively be his firstborn son. What father does not know his son? In the NT when God was ready to send his Spirit to this son so the natural son could be "born again" and each individual could be a :son of God" as well as being born again collectively, they refused. Since God's plan through them at this time was to fashion a bride for his son in the same way he had fashioned a bride for Adam back in Genesis, from his side, after he had put him into a deep sleep, God is not frustrated in fashioning a bride for his Son, since those who were originally bidden, his people Israel, refused, he sent out into the world of the gentiles and whosoever will come by faith becomes part of his bride and his body. When they are joined, a man and his bride, they become one flesh. ! Cor 7 says so.This does not mean he has abrogated his covenants he made with his people Israel When the bride and body of Christ is complete (full) he will keep every one of his covenants with Israel, including the part that deals with the land. His covenants are immutable. Foreknowledge is used in a completely different way as omniscience. Confusing the two will blind your mind.

Ex 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

23 And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.

This is Israel in his natural birth. Individually God was not their Father. God intends a second birth for them collectively when he will become their Father. These are glorious truths if you can latch on to them. Israel's failure became our opportunity as gentiles. Thank God for this blessing.

Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh (by trying to keep the law for righteousness) , ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

The context proves that Israel in this chapter is the main focus of Paul even though some of these truths does apply to gentile believers as well. Paul deals with these subjects as they relate to gentiles in Ephesians and in the last half of Rom 11.

God did not foreknow gentiles;

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

, Would you disagree with inspired words from God and say God did know us before we are in Christ? I am not that bold. What does without God and Christ no hope mean to you? The gentiles began receiving the Spirit 10 years later than did the Jews.History bears out what Paul says.

 

Lol. I love your humor Sai.

I don’t see any reference in Scripture where Job is “foreknown.” Foreknowledge is the subject of my op. I have never claimed that there were no believers except Israel in the OT.

Where did you learn that God foreknew him?

 

No Jew or gentile was saved in the OT. How would an OT person gets their sins washed away before the cross? I have addressed this in several of my comments and on different threads. I thought you knew. Are you hinting salvation is something else?

 

I am totally confused by your comments. What is going on with this Yeshua name? Your using this name is the source of my confusion. I will not be dealing with people who throws this wrinkle into the discussion.

 

Ll the passages in the scriptures where the word foreknowledge is used.

Acts 2:23
Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Spoken to Jews only.



Romans 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

The primary context of Rom 8 is Jewish

Romans 11:2
God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

God's people are always Israel in the scriptures. The context of Romans 11 proves it is the case here as well.



1 Peter 1:2
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Peter addressed this epistle to "strangers" in places in Asia. Strangers in scriptures are people who are out of their own land and are in someone elses. This passage is Jewish.

God does not foreknow individuals and he does not foreknow gentiles within the definition of foreknowledge that we have in scriptures. The scriptures are the only place we have to determine what God means by it and it takes comparing scripture with scripture. If someone besides these inspired writers have different definitions, they are suspect. They have made it up.