Featured Humans Do Not Generate Their Own Faith

" Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father’s name, they bear witness of me.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father’s hand." ( John 10:24-29 ).

 

I've never read Augustine.
Can you think of any reason why I should start, Barry?

I can't.

I have the Bible, what more do I need?
What more do any of us, as His sheep, really need?

 

Come on Dave , your consistency to proof texting every verse in the Calvinists handbook is faultless

 

Barry,
May I direct your attention to post # 21?

Please tell me what it says, if you are so inclined.

 

When you are finished, may I direct your attention to post # 9, and ask you to tell me, in your own words, what 1 Corinthians 2:6-16 is stating?
I would appreciate it, Barry, since that is where I get the idea that we as unrepentant sinners, left to ourselves, are completely unable and unwilling to receive the words of God.

As a reminder, we are speaking about God's word, not John Calvin's, John Wesley's, or John R. Rice's take on it.

 

Your making my point clearer , thank you . Yes those that ( the sheep, which are Jews, mat 15.24 ) were already following and learning of the Father ( John 6.45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.) heard Jesus . They recognised the same from Jesus .
in contrast with those that had wandered off from the Fathers teachings who had grown hardened, they did not recognise the voice of Jesus . Simple . No need to add hindu mystical nonsense about only the Gnostic frozen ,initiated ,secret ' elect ' are ' awakened ' by the irresistible call , call ! , call !!!! , like Jason Bourne ,triggered by a preprogrammed set of words that when spoken will ' activate ' Jason , ready for his chosen mission .

 

I'm not adding anything Barry.
I'm understanding what the words on the page in John 10 actually say...

That no one who is not Christ's sheep, the saved, will ever believe God's word.
The reason the Jews kept asking Him questions, and then turning right around and not believing Him, was because they were not saved.

They were not "of" His sheep.

In addition, it was not just the Jews who are Christ's sheep:

" As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd. " ( John 10:15-16 ).

All saved Gentiles are His as well.

" For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls." ( 1 Peter 2:25 ).

 

You wont need to . You've got Paul washer , John Mac , Sproul , Piper, Vodie Baucham, James White , ect .

 

I don't pay any attention to them.
Shall we get back to the discussion?

We were talking about the Scriptures, not some man's take on them.

How about we start with your assessment of 1 Corinthians 2:6-16, line by line, verse by verse?
I'm curious as to what you see when you read it, and how you understand it.

I can go first, if you like.

What I'm trying to establish, by Scripture, is why I believe that not all men can read and understand God's words.
Adding to that, why all men do not have faith, as 2 Thessalonians 3:2 clearly states.

 

Again . Calvinism and Context , never go together, not once . You can take that to the bank . Answer me this then , if your sure you have the correct interpretation of 1 cor 2 . Could you explain verse 2.15
15But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
in keeping with your understanding of the surrounding verses . please?

 

Great..ok let's start ...

 

It's explained in the context of verse 14 and the rest of the chapter above it.

 

First 5 verses 1 cor 2
1¶And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
2For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
3And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
4And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
5That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

 

Is it fair to say that those in corinth were relying on man's wisdom and Paul is contrasting Wisdom . God's v man's?

 

I've posted the first 5 verses of the chapter ...

 

Thats a non answer by the way .

 

Fold = disciples. Others = other Jews . Mat 15.24 . The programme only changes when finally they reject their messiah. Then and its later , it turns to the Gentiles. Mainly After Paul is converted.

 

Part 1:

" Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7 but we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ." ( 1 Corinthians 2:6-16 ).

Here's my breakdown of 6-16, starting with 6-9:

6) Paul here is telling the Corinthians that he is speaking wisdom among them that are perfect.
For the key to who it is that are "perfect", please see Hebrews 2:10, Hebrews 10:14, and Hebrews 12:23.

7) He then tells them that he and Sosthenes ( please see 1 Corinthians 1:1 ) are speaking the wisdom of God in a mystery...
Hidden wisdom, which God ordained ( appointed ) before the world began, and it was done to the believer's glory.

8) Which none of the princes of this world knew...
For if they had known, they would not have crucified Jesus Christ.

9) As it is written ( see Isaiah 64:4 ), eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither has entered into the heart of man, the things which God has prepared for them that love Him.