Humans Do Not Generate Their Own Faith

[37818]

. . . exercise their faith . . . .

So faith is a kind of work

 

[37818]

Nope. Dead people have no faith. They cannot have faith because God has not made them alive. Scripture is very clear.

The problem here is you refuse to hear. No one can know anything without some kind of faith. Therefore your thinking is irrational.

 

[AustinC]

Only in your imagination. This passage does not say we have to made alive in order to be saved. Faith comes before Salvation
Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Did Paul lie to the Jailer? And yes right up to the moment we are saved we are still in sin. Being made spiritually alive is being saved because we cannot be alive spiritually and not be saved. You like all Calvinist place the cart before the horse.
MB

Is scripture only in my imagination?

 

[AustinC]

Yes and clearly you are not . Unless you can answer my question please ?

It seems you are not aware of how atonement works.
A sacrifice is made and those for whom the sacrifice is made are cleansed of their sins by the sacrifice of an unblemished animal.
If Jesus atoned for all humanity, then all humanity is cleansed of their sins.
Barry, is all humanity atoned for by the blood of our perfect lamb, Jesus Christ?

 

[AustinC]

Dead people also have no pulse .

Correct. There is no spiritual pulse in a person who is dead in their trespasses and sins. They cannot discern the things of God.

1 Corinthians 2:12-14 Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[AustinC]

People are not saved until they exercise their faith and believe. If you disagree, you disagree with John 20:31, Ephesians 1:13, John 3:36, John 3:18, Romans 10:9, Acts 16:30-31, Romans 10:13.

No one will therefore be saved by you claim.
God says we are saved by grace. He tells us twice. Then God says "through faith, which is not of yourself so that no one can boast."
I disagree with you, ITL. You are not God.

 

[AustinC]

Yes we have to recieve it . You did not benefit at all from Jesus death ( blood ) 2000 years ago . No you did not recieve Jesus 2000 years ago .

Only those whom God died for will receive it. Did God die, universally for all...or is it limited to those God has chosen?

I indeed benefit from Jesus atoning sacrifice, which was offered on my behalf 2000 years ago.
How can I make that claim? Because I was chosen and adopted before the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1:3-14 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

 

[AustinC]

No one can know anything without some kind of faith. Therefore your thinking is irrational.

Correct. No one can have faith until God gives them faith. This faith to believe comes after God graciously saves us.

Ephesians 2:4-9 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

 

[Barry Johnson]

It seems you are not aware of how atonement works.
A sacrifice is made and those for whom the sacrifice is made are cleansed of their sins by the sacrifice of an unblemished animal.
If Jesus atoned for all humanity, then all humanity is cleansed of their sins.
Barry, is all humanity atoned for by the blood of our perfect lamb, Jesus Christ?

According to Romans 5 we have to RECEIVE it .
And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have NOW received the atonement

 

[Barry Johnson]

Correct. There is no spiritual pulse in a person who is dead in their trespasses and sins. They cannot discern the things of God.

1 Corinthians 2:12-14 Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

its talking about immature / Carnal / believers who are not able to understand the deeper things of God ,the wisdom Paul speaks among the Mature . Read verse 6and 15 .

 

[Barry Johnson]

Correct. There is no spiritual pulse in a person who is dead in their trespasses and sins. They cannot discern the things of God.

1 Corinthians 2:12-14 Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

As an aside which translation is that ?

 

[Barry Johnson]

Only those whom God died for will receive it. Did God die, universally for all...or is it limited to those God has chosen?

I indeed benefit from Jesus atoning sacrifice, which was offered on my behalf 2000 years ago.
How can I make that claim? Because I was chosen and adopted before the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1:3-14 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

Slight wrinkle in your calvinist paradigm there . Every Calvinist misses it . When does romans 8 ,32 say when a believer is adopted?

 

[Barry Johnson]

Only those whom God died for will receive it. Did God die, universally for all...or is it limited to those God has chosen?

I indeed benefit from Jesus atoning sacrifice, which was offered on my behalf 2000 years ago.
How can I make that claim? Because I was chosen and adopted before the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1:3-14 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

///Only those whom God died for will receive it./// Do you have a verse that says this ? without tracking back to your philosophy ( Augustine )

 

[Barry Johnson]

Only those whom God died for will receive it. Did God die, universally for all...or is it limited to those God has chosen?

I indeed benefit from Jesus atoning sacrifice, which was offered on my behalf 2000 years ago.
How can I make that claim? Because I was chosen and adopted before the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1:3-14 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

I indeed benefit from Jesus atoning sacrifice, which was offered on my behalf 2000 years ago.///// me , me , me centred calvinism. Every verse seems to be about the Calvinist. . How did you benefit ?
Eph2
11¶Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

 

[JonC]

To be fair, men do not generate their own faith on anything or anyone (faith is always dependent on its object, whether experiential or taught).

 

[Salty]

Unless posted sooner
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