Faith

[percho]

These are great verses, percho. How do they answer the following questions?

When does God place faith into a human being?

Does the Bible tell us when faith enters the heart of a person? If so, what verses would they be?

I believe when we are indwelt with the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, we received, Christ in us and the faith of Christ. God removes from unbelief to belief, from not being of faith, to being of faith.

Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 1 Tim 1:13 - What was this man of unbelief going down the road to Damascus to do? Why was he struck blind? - And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus,[fn] who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized. So when he had received food, he was strengthened. Then Saul spent some days with the disciples at Damascus. Immediately he preached the Christ [ fn NU-Text reads Jesus ] in the synagogues, that He is the Son of God. Acts 17-20 He went from unbelief to belief

Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.John 14:16,17
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: John 15:26
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. John 16:13

And we -- we ought to give thanks to God always for you, brethren, beloved by the Lord, that God did choose you from the beginning into salvation, in sanctification of Spirit, and to faith (belief) of truth, 2 Thes 2:13

 

[percho]

The question isn't whether Jesus is the author and finisher of faith. This is stated in the verse. The question is: When did/does Jesus author faith? Is it pre-redemption or post-redemption.
It seems to me that there have been two brother's in this topic who have expressed one against the other.
Is there scripture that gives us an indication for either position or perhaps for both positions?
I have my opinion, but I don't know that I have definitive verses for one position over the other.

Does the following make sense?

upon hope of life age-during, which God, who doth not lie, did promise before times of ages, Titus 1:2 Before Let there be light God promised H O P E.

Gal 3:23 And before the coming of the faith, - Is that faith; the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen?

Gal 3:25 and the faith having come - Is that faith: the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen?

Did, the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen remove those under the law, the schoolmaster and put them under grace? When did that take place? Was it when Jesus of Nazareth died for our sins and was raised out of the dead by God the Father?

but has been made manifest now by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who has annulled death, and brought to light life and incorruptibility by (through) the glad tidings (gospel).

Through the gospel / Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Is that when, the faith, the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen, was authored and perfected?

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Acts 16:14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

All 3 passages teach that saving faith follows the hearing of the word of God.

 

[Barry Johnson]

When does God place faith into a human being?

Does the Bible tell us when faith enters the heart of a person? If so, what verses would they be?

Our faith is ours . The Faith OF Jesus is his . The Calvinst version of regeneration preceding faith is as scriptural as the planet kolob in mormonism .

 

[Barry Johnson]

Faith always precedes the regeneration. No exceptions.

This would be inductive reasoning . ' it just has to be because this is what we see after the cross " . This is the error of calvinism .

 

[Barry Johnson]

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Acts 16:14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

All 3 passages teach that saving faith follows the hearing of the word of God.

Actually Ephesians 1.13 actually refutes what your saying . It says " ye trusted after you heard " . So Faith in what is being preached is what we trust in . And after we trust in what we hear by faith we are sealed by the Holy Spirit . Your not Lydia are you ? And it doesn't say what things she attended to ? How her heart was opened, who opened it if anyone And she was already a worshipper of God . I'm always amazed how some Christians take a verse mis apply it and make it all about them.

 

[Barry Johnson]

That reminds me of Hebrews 12:2

looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.

This verse tells us that Jesus founded and perfects our faith, however, this verse doesn't tell us when.

The verse you shared expresses that faith isn't within us at birth, but comes later.

But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

It then goes on to state that the law brought us to Christ so we might be justified by faith. So it seems that faith comes after the law brings us to Christ.

Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster."

This begs the question: When does the law bring us to Christ, and how soon does faith come after the law brings us to Christ?

I often wonder if this is where we get theses ideas we see in movies . Where Faith is this mystical force ,like its a substance or something .

 

[Barry Johnson]

I believe when we are indwelt with the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, we received, Christ in us and the faith of Christ. God removes from unbelief to belief, from not being of faith, to being of faith.

Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 1 Tim 1:13 - What was this man of unbelief going down the road to Damascus to do? Why was he struck blind? - And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus,[fn] who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized. So when he had received food, he was strengthened. Then Saul spent some days with the disciples at Damascus. Immediately he preached the Christ [ fn NU-Text reads Jesus ] in the synagogues, that He is the Son of God. Acts 17-20 He went from unbelief to belief

Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.John 14:16,17
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: John 15:26
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. John 16:13

And we -- we ought to give thanks to God always for you, brethren, beloved by the Lord, that God did choose you from the beginning into salvation, in sanctification of Spirit, and to faith (belief) of truth, 2 Thes 2:13

2 thes 2.13 . The ' beginning ' is when Paul first preached to them . Notice it says 'beginning 'but not 'from the foundation of the world .

 

[AustinC]

I believe when we are indwelt with the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, we received, Christ in us and the faith of Christ. God removes from unbelief to belief, from not being of faith, to being of faith.

Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 1 Tim 1:13 - What was this man of unbelief going down the road to Damascus to do? Why was he struck blind? - And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus,[fn] who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized. So when he had received food, he was strengthened. Then Saul spent some days with the disciples at Damascus. Immediately he preached the Christ [ fn NU-Text reads Jesus ] in the synagogues, that He is the Son of God. Acts 17-20 He went from unbelief to belief

Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.John 14:16,17
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: John 15:26
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. John 16:13

And we -- we ought to give thanks to God always for you, brethren, beloved by the Lord, that God did choose you from the beginning into salvation, in sanctification of Spirit, and to faith (belief) of truth, 2 Thes 2:13

Thanks percho. It seems, from your comment and scripture, that you consider faith to come at the time of belief, not before belief. Is that an accurate interpretation by me?

 

[AustinC]

Our faith is ours . The Faith OF Jesus is his . The Calvinst version of regeneration preceding faith is as scriptural as the planet kolob in mormonism .

Barry, convince me with scripture and then express how the word of God accurately presents the assertion you have made.
2nd, keep Calvinism out of this conversation as we are dealing with faith and when it is given by the Creator to mankind. Please stay on topic.

 

[Barry Johnson]

Barry, convince me with scripture and then express how the word of God accurately presents the assertion you have made.
2nd, keep Calvinism out of this conversation as we are dealing with faith and when it is given by the Creator to mankind. Please stay on topic.

I thought we were dealing with ' regeneration precedes faith ' Which flies in the face of the entire bible .

 

[AustinC]

I thought we were dealing with ' regeneration precedes faith ' Which flies in the face of the entire bible .

Scripture, Barry, Scripture.
Opinions are empty without interpreted scripture to confirm.
What does God tell us?

 

[37818]

One cannot even hear and accept that Jesus is Lord unless regenerated first!

There is not one place in the written word of God that teaches that when one is regenerated then one shall bave the faith.

 

[Barry Johnson]

Scripture, Barry, Scripture.
Opinions are empty without interpreted scripture to confirm.
What does God tell us?

Its tough when scriptural authority is not where calvinists derive their understanding. They are similar to Catholics in terms of ' Church history ' and trusting the opinions of the so called ' giants of the faith '

When does God place faith into a human being?

Does the Bible tell us when faith enters the heart of a person? If so, what verses would they be?

I would say Faith comes by hearing the word of God . Then we trust what we hear . Without our own faith in him ,its impossible to please God . 1 cor 1.21 . Hebrews 11 . I don't think it pleases God to give us faith causing us to believe and then being weirdly happy about his own doings ? This would be the equivalent of a hypnotist being pleased that his wife choosing to love and marry him , but secretly he caused her to do so .

 

[37818]

This would be inductive reasoning . ' it just has to be because this is what we see after the cross " . This is the error of calvinism .

How is it inductive reasoning when there is not one place in the written word of God that teaches regeneration precedes the faith?

Faith always precedes the regeneration. No exceptions.

Many Calvinists teach regeneertion must come first in order to even believe God's truth.

 

[Van]

Van, I will ask the moderators to ban you from this topic if you cannot speak to the OP question. This is my final warning before moderators are contacted to address your off-topic rambling.

Yet another off topic post, threatening the poster rather than addressing the post.

From post #7:

What verse says people are given pre-salvation faith? None.
What verses our task is to put our faith in Christ? John 6:29.

 

[Barry Johnson]

How is it inductive reasoning when there is not one place in the written word of God that teaches regeneration precedes the faith?

Where on the surface it looks like Lydia has her heart opened by God to hear the Gospel. There fore God always opens peoples hearts first. " God pricks their hearts , therefore God opens a person's heart first to hear the Gospel. .Paul is knocked off a horse ( What horse? ) and suddenly regenerated .ect ect . Its deduced from texts that are not about God causing anyone to believe the Gospel and are turned into ' regeneration preceds faith.

 

[Barry Johnson]

Scripture, Barry, Scripture.
Opinions are empty without interpreted scripture to confirm.
What does God tell us?

1 cor 1 .21

 

[Barry Johnson]

How is it inductive reasoning when there is not one place in the written word of God that teaches regeneration precedes the faith?
Many Calvinists teach regeneertion must come first in order to even believe God's truth.

I know and there are no verses say this . it has to be so because of the rest of their system fails . Thats why they so desperately argue it . The same with claiming old testament saints were born again .

 

[atpollard]

What verse says people are given pre-salvation faith? None.

[Acts 16:14-15 NASB] 14 A woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple fabrics, a worshiper of God, was listening; and the (first) Lord opened her heart to (second) respond to the things spoken by Paul. 15 And when she and her household (third) had been baptized, she urged us, saying, "If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house and stay." And she prevailed upon us.

By the numbers ...

1. God opened her heart (faith to believe ... see the parable of the seed and the soils for clarification on the word of God and the heart).
2. Paul preached the word (as scripture says, Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word ... but God had first opened her heart to prepare the soil to receive the word in faith ... so God comes before hearing the word).
3. Baptism comes after being saved. We baptize those that God has saved, we do not baptize the unrepentant in hope that they may be saved in the future. So (1) and (2) came pre-salvation since (3) celebrates salvation.

Q.E.D. God opened a heart to receive the word before salvation. At this point you can only split semantic hairs that you didn't get the wording that YOU wanted. Your claim of "None" has been refuted.