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Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by AustinC, Oct 19, 2020.

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  1. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    This is why you should read the KJV . then you will see the context clearer .
     
  2. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Nonsense . You claim God gives Faith as a EXCLUSIVE gift only to some and not to others . Verse please?I have a verse that says EVERY man .
     
  3. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Which you have to have to be in the body of Christ to have this gift of faith ..When were you IN the body of Christ ? before or after you believe?
     
  4. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Your not to think more highly as if you are the chosen ones and it s only you that are God's 'elect '( sound familiar? ) . Like the Jews were still assuming. Why should they think soberly on this ? Because according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. EVERYONE CAN COME IN . Go preach to EVERY MAN is the point Paul is making.
     
  5. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    2 thes 3
    1¶Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:
    2And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.
    3¶But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.
    Faith in what? They don't have faith in Jesus. They are unbelievers..Simple . The clue is in " 2And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: ( unbelievers)
     
  6. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    With respect..I do not hold to reformed theology so I do not interpret according to it , so our result will be different.
     
  7. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Only Calvinism holds to what you believe. Is this a coincidence?
     
  8. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    The KJV is not the most accurate English translation. In fact, the ESV is more accurate to the original manuscripts. It seems you are prejudiced.
     
  9. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Which ' original ' manuscripts ?
     
  10. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Also John 1:12-13.

    12 "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
    13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."


    1 John 5:1; "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: ... ."
     
  11. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    I compare different translations all the time and the Kjv gets it right everytime . The context.
     
  12. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Right. Not all men have faith. Those unbelievers don't have faith. Therefore your comment that faith was imparted on humans at the same time God gave them breath is demonstrably incorrect.

    2 Thessalonians 3:1-3 Finally, brothers, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may speed ahead and be honored, as happened among you, and that we may be delivered from wicked and evil men. For not all have faith. But the Lord is faithful. He will establish you and guard you against the evil one.
     
  13. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Six hour warning
    This thread will be closed no sooner than - 1159 pm edt / 859 pm pdt
     
  14. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Do you not realize that those verses condemn your position and prove Reformed theology to be accurate?
     
  15. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Context . They don't have faith in Jesus.
     
  16. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Now you reveal your hand . We shouldn't go looking for verses to support our theology . This is how reformed theology began in the first place .
     
  17. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Well, that's just another false statement to put in your jar of false statements.
     
  18. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    You are proving my point and condemning your own assertion.
     
  19. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    No God has dealt the MEASURE OF FAITH TO EVERY!! MAN ..ok now its up to EVERYMAN what object he places his faith in . The right choice is this:
    5¶But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, HIS faith is counted for righteousness.

    John 1:12-13.

    12 "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
    13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."


    1 John 5:1; "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: ... ."

    Clearly we can say also that ' not all men have faith in the context given in that verse . Don't we distinguish this way today ,when we say " I don't think he's a believer " , He doesn't have faith in Christ " ect .
     
  20. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    I agree.

    Nowhere does it say, in one "proof text" that God gifts an exclusive special gift of faith to anyone.
    But it does say many things that, if one is paying attention, should cause them to sit up and take notice:

    1) That it is given to some to know the mysteries of the kingdom of Heaven, but to others it is not given ( Matthew 13:10-11 ).
    2) That a person can only come to Christ if it is given to them to do so by the Father ( John 6:64-65 ).
    3) That only those that are foreknown will actually have the benefits of any of the rest that is contained in Romans 8:29-30.
    4) That the believer is chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world.
    4) That a person does not believe because they are not "of" Christ's sheep ( John 10:26 ).
    5) That faith is a gift ( Ephesians 2:8 ).
    6) That believers are God's workmanship ( Ephesians 2:10 ).
    7) That believers are made accepted in the beloved ( Ephesians 1:6 ).
    8) that the preaching of the cross is foolishness to those that perish ( 1 Corinthians 1:18 ).
    9) That no man knows the Father but the Son, and vice-versa, and those to whom the Son with reveal the Father to ( Matthew 11:27 ).
    10) That Jesus often addresses those that have "ears to hear" ( Matthew 15:11 ).
    11) That only someone that is "of God" hears God's words ( John 8:43-47.
    I see the context for the "every man" there,
    as being the "every man that is among you" from the earlier section of the verse.

    Don't you?
     
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