Faith

[Barry Johnson]

You like context, Barry, correct? If so, let's look at context.

Romans 12:1-3
I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect. For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.

Your very reference disagrees with your assertion and proves you wrong.
(But, perhaps you will cry foul because the ESV is not your preferred English translation and apparently only your preferred translation is accurate...[emoji849])

This is why you should read the KJV . then you will see the context clearer .

 

[Barry Johnson]

The Bible shows your assertion to be completely false, however. Both 2 Thessalonians 3 and Romans 12 stand against your assertion.

Nonsense . You claim God gives Faith as a EXCLUSIVE gift only to some and not to others . Verse please?I have a verse that says EVERY man .

 

[Barry Johnson]

[NASB] Romans 12:3-8 For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith. For just as we have many members in one body and all the members do not have the same function, so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another. Since we have gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, each of us is to exercise them accordingly: if prophecy, according to the proportion of his faith; if service, in his serving; or he who teaches, in his teaching; or he who exhorts, in his exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness.​

Romans 12:3 makes it clear that God has given faith to ALL OF THE SAINTS IN THE BODY OF CHRIST!

Which you have to have to be in the body of Christ to have this gift of faith ..When were you IN the body of Christ ? before or after you believe?

 

[Barry Johnson]

You like context, Barry, correct? If so, let's look at context.

Romans 12:1-3
I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect. For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.

Your very reference disagrees with your assertion and proves you wrong.
(But, perhaps you will cry foul because the ESV is not your preferred English translation and apparently only your preferred translation is accurate...[emoji849])

Your not to think more highly as if you are the chosen ones and it s only you that are God's 'elect '( sound familiar? ) . Like the Jews were still assuming. Why should they think soberly on this ? Because according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. EVERYONE CAN COME IN . Go preach to EVERY MAN is the point Paul is making.

 

[Barry Johnson]

The Bible shows your assertion to be completely false, however. Both 2 Thessalonians 3 and Romans 12 stand against your assertion.

2 thes 3
1¶Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:
2And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.
3¶But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.
Faith in what? They don't have faith in Jesus. They are unbelievers..Simple . The clue is in " 2And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: ( unbelievers)

 

[Barry Johnson]

Amen.

As you know, I also hold that a person's faith is a gift.
Once given to us by God ( Ephesians 2:8 ), it becomes ours.
Therefore, I see no reason to disagree with the words on the page, as I clearly see it saying that a person's faith is counted for righteousness.

Now a question for you:
Does Scripture tell the believer why people believe or do not believe on Christ?
Yes, It does.

For example:
John 6:37-47, John 6:64-65, John 10:26 and many others have much to say about the cause of someone's belief;
There's far more to God's word than simply Romans 4:5, John 3:16, 2 Peter 3:9, 1 Timothy 2:3-6, 1 Timothy 4:10 and 1 John 2:2, to name a few.
There's all the rest ( Matthew 4:4 )…

And it's all just as important as key passages that tells us what characteristics or evidences that one of God's children ( who were chosen to salvation through those things ), will have...
One of which is their belief of the truth ( 2 Thessalonians 2:13 ).

What I'm hoping that you're willing to do, is to factor all of what is declared in the Scriptures, into your conclusions.

With respect..I do not hold to reformed theology so I do not interpret according to it , so our result will be different.

 

[Barry Johnson]

Amen.

As you know, I also hold that a person's faith is a gift.
Once given to us by God ( Ephesians 2:8 ), it becomes ours.
Therefore, I see no reason to disagree with the words on the page, as I clearly see it saying that a person's faith is counted for righteousness.

Now a question for you:
Does Scripture tell the believer why people believe or do not believe on Christ?
Yes, It does.

For example:
John 6:37-47, John 6:64-65, John 10:26 and many others have much to say about the cause of someone's belief;
There's far more to God's word than simply Romans 4:5, John 3:16, 2 Peter 3:9, 1 Timothy 2:3-6, 1 Timothy 4:10 and 1 John 2:2, to name a few.
There's all the rest ( Matthew 4:4 )…

And it's all just as important as key passages that tells us what characteristics or evidences that one of God's children ( who were chosen to salvation through those things ), will have...
One of which is their belief of the truth ( 2 Thessalonians 2:13 ).

What I'm hoping that you're willing to do, is to factor all of what is declared in the Scriptures, into your conclusions.

Only Calvinism holds to what you believe. Is this a coincidence?

 

[AustinC]

This is why you should read the KJV . then you will see the context clearer .

The KJV is not the most accurate English translation. In fact, the ESV is more accurate to the original manuscripts. It seems you are prejudiced.

 

[Barry Johnson]

The KJV is not the most accurate English translation. In fact, the ESV is more accurate to the original manuscripts. It seems you are prejudiced.

Which ' original ' manuscripts ?

 

[Barry Johnson]

The Bible shows your assertion to be completely false, however. Both 2 Thessalonians 3 and Romans 12 stand against your assertion.

Also John 1:12-13.

12 "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

1 John 5:1; "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: ... ."

 

[Barry Johnson]

The KJV is not the most accurate English translation. In fact, the ESV is more accurate to the original manuscripts. It seems you are prejudiced.

I compare different translations all the time and the Kjv gets it right everytime . The context.

 

[AustinC]

2 thes 3
1¶Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:
2And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.
3¶But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.
Faith in what? They don't have faith in Jesus. They are unbelievers..Simple . The clue is in " 2And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: ( unbelievers)

Right. Not all men have faith. Those unbelievers don't have faith. Therefore your comment that faith was imparted on humans at the same time God gave them breath is demonstrably incorrect.

2 Thessalonians 3:1-3 Finally, brothers, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may speed ahead and be honored, as happened among you, and that we may be delivered from wicked and evil men. For not all have faith. But the Lord is faithful. He will establish you and guard you against the evil one.

 

[Salty]

Six hour warning
This thread will be closed no sooner than - 1159 pm edt / 859 pm pdt

 

[AustinC]

Also John 1:12-13.

12 "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

1 John 5:1; "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: ... ."

Do you not realize that those verses condemn your position and prove Reformed theology to be accurate?

 

[Barry Johnson]

Right. Not all men have faith. Those unbelievers don't have faith. Therefore your comment that faith was imparted on humans at the same time God gave them breath is demonstrably incorrect.

2 Thessalonians 3:1-3 Finally, brothers, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may speed ahead and be honored, as happened among you, and that we may be delivered from wicked and evil men. For not all have faith. But the Lord is faithful. He will establish you and guard you against the evil one.

Context . They don't have faith in Jesus.

 

[Barry Johnson]

Do you not realize that those verses condemn your position and prove Reformed theology to be accurate?

Now you reveal your hand . We shouldn't go looking for verses to support our theology . This is how reformed theology began in the first place .

 

[AustinC]

I compare different translations all the time and the Kjv gets it right everytime . The context.

Well, that's just another false statement to put in your jar of false statements.

 

[AustinC]

Context . They don't have faith in Jesus.

You are proving my point and condemning your own assertion.

 

[Barry Johnson]

You are proving my point and condemning your own assertion.

No God has dealt the MEASURE OF FAITH TO EVERY!! MAN ..ok now its up to EVERYMAN what object he places his faith in . The right choice is this:
5¶But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, HIS faith is counted for righteousness.

John 1:12-13.

12 "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

1 John 5:1; "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: ... ."

Clearly we can say also that ' not all men have faith in the context given in that verse . Don't we distinguish this way today ,when we say " I don't think he's a believer " , He doesn't have faith in Christ " ect .

 

[Dave G]

No where does it say that God gifts an EXCLUSIVE special gift of Faith .

I agree.

Nowhere does it say, in one "proof text" that God gifts an exclusive special gift of faith to anyone.
But it does say many things that, if one is paying attention, should cause them to sit up and take notice:

1) That it is given to some to know the mysteries of the kingdom of Heaven, but to others it is not given ( Matthew 13:10-11 ).
2) That a person can only come to Christ if it is given to them to do so by the Father ( John 6:64-65 ).
3) That only those that are foreknown will actually have the benefits of any of the rest that is contained in Romans 8:29-30.
4) That the believer is chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world.
4) That a person does not believe because they are not "of" Christ's sheep ( John 10:26 ).
5) That faith is a gift ( Ephesians 2:8 ).
6) That believers are God's workmanship ( Ephesians 2:10 ).
7) That believers are made accepted in the beloved ( Ephesians 1:6 ).
8) that the preaching of the cross is foolishness to those that perish ( 1 Corinthians 1:18 ).
9) That no man knows the Father but the Son, and vice-versa, and those to whom the Son with reveal the Father to ( Matthew 11:27 ).
10) That Jesus often addresses those that have "ears to hear" ( Matthew 15:11 ).
11) That only someone that is "of God" hears God's words ( John 8:43-47.

The bible makes it clear that God has given everyone the measure of faith ( Rom 12 .3 ) .

I see the context for the "every man" there,
as being the "every man that is among you" from the earlier section of the verse.

Don't you?