The stepping stones of Justification

[atpollard]

1) God reveals Himself to human kind, in two ways.

2) We are exposed to His declaration of the gospel of Christ. Thus without the work of the Holy Spirit, both in the inspired word, and in His leading of witnesses, we would not know what to put our faith in.

3) Some of those exposed to the gospel are unable to understand it, those who are described as the first soil of Matthew 13.

4) Others, understand the message, but do not commit fully, or do not discard their worldly treasures. These are described as the second and third soil of Matthew 13.

5) A "few" understand the message and fully commit, they go "all in" and therefore love God with all their mind, heart and soul.

What part of this requires any action on the part of God after the compiling of the Holy Bible around the 4th Century?
It SOUNDS like the arguments from the 18th Century Deists for God as The Great Watchmaker that set things in motion and stands back waiting for "enlightened men" to decide. How are your first 5 stepping stones different from their beliefs?

If there is no difference, then is that really what the whole of scripture teaches about how and why men come to God?

 

[atpollard]

It is nonsense, pure and simple. Note how he divided perfect from perfect faith, and righteous for righteous faith, to obfuscate.
This is all they have folks, falsehood defending falsehood.

... and "adjectives" that modify "nouns".

 

[Yeshua1]

What part of this requires any action on the part of God after the compiling of the Holy Bible around the 4th Century?
It SOUNDS like the arguments from the 18th Century Deists for God as The Great Watchmaker that set things in motion and stands back waiting for "enlightened men" to decide. How are your first 5 stepping stones different from their beliefs?

If there is no difference, then is that really what the whole of scripture teaches about how and why men come to God?

I wish Van would answer where sinners get the required saving faith from, and also how can God credit to us anything as being good?

 

[Van]

What part of this requires any action on the part of God after the compiling of the Holy Bible around the 4th Century?
It SOUNDS like the arguments from the 18th Century Deists for God as The Great Watchmaker that set things in motion and stands back waiting for "enlightened men" to decide. How are your first 5 stepping stones different from their beliefs?

If there is no difference, then is that really what the whole of scripture teaches about how and why men come to God?

Here is a doubling down on a false charge. Deists deny special revelation, whether visions, inspired text.
Now what were the two ways God reveals Himself?

Here is the part of the post edited out in the linked post:
Number 1 always starts with God. If God did not provide the grace of His revelation, both in what He has made, and the special revelation in His word, we would not even be able to have faith in God, and as Paul referenced, we might have faith in the "unknown god." And what is one of the revelations in His word - why God reveals Himself in visions and with Angels.

Pay no attention to these founts of misinformation.

 

[Van]

I wish Van would answer where sinners get the required saving faith from, and also how can God credit to us anything as being good?

Here Y1 again denies Romans 4, and claims God cannot take something imperfect or wrong or evil, and turn it into something good. I admit, every other Calvinist I have heard from believes God is all-powerful. But not this guy.

 

[atpollard]

Here is a doubling down on a false charge. Deists deny special revelation, whether visions, inspired text.
Now what were the two ways God reveals Himself?

Here is the part of the post edited out in the linked post:
Number 1 always starts with God. If God did not provide the grace of His revelation, both in what He has made, and the special revelation in His word, we would not even be able to have faith in God, and as Paul referenced, we might have faith in the "unknown god." And what is one of the revelations in His word - why God reveals Himself in visions and with Angels.

Pay no attention to these founts of misinformation.

So the difference is you and the deists disagree about what God did in the First Century?

I was focusing more on TODAY.
You and Deists seem to agree that God does NOTHING to "draw" (sorry, I know you dislike that term) believers. You seem to be claiming that God has provided His Word and left it to us to decide. I attempted to confirm that is your belief, or give you a chance to correct my misunderstanding.

You consistently choose to do neither.
So your words must speak for themselves ...

1) God reveals Himself to human kind, in two ways.

... neither of the two ways you describe are supernatural, so God does not reveal Himself supernaturally.

2) We are exposed to His declaration of the gospel of Christ. Thus without the work of the Holy Spirit, both in the inspired word, and in His leading of witnesses, we would not know what to put our faith in.

The two ways:

1. Inspired Word ... so God has given us His word and the supernatural work happened in the First Century, not today.
2. Witnesses ... God MAY supernaturally lead witnesses (you are unclear on this point), but the second method is non-mystical communication between ordinary people.

3) Some of those exposed to the gospel are unable to understand it, those who are described as the first soil of Matthew 13.

4) Others, understand the message, but do not commit fully, or do not discard their worldly treasures. These are described as the second and third soil of Matthew 13.

5) A "few" understand the message and fully commit, they go "all in" and therefore love God with all their mind, heart and soul.

... as a result of the non-supernatural communication in "stepping stones" 1 and 2, the human being makes a personal and independent decision whose result is determined by circumstances and internal conditions. The responsibility for his choice (credit and blame) rests with the person.

6) These few are the ones whose faith God credits as righteousness, and are spiritually placed into Christ, thus these "few" are chosen for salvation.

... only AFTER the man has chosen and revealed the character of his heart, does God resume a role in the salvation of the individual that God left off with the death of the last Apostle and the completion of His Holy Word.

This is what you have described.
I respectfully disagree.

 

[MB]

You're still describing a faith that a man possesses by nature, and not a faith that is imparted to the sheep. So, no. We're not talking about the same thing at all.

But would you call the life of a child born something "shoved down its throat?" That you call the Second Birth something like that shows you have very little understanding of what is going on when someone is saved.

No one said it did. God did not create men with faith. Adam and Eve did not walk by faith in their innocence, and whether or not it was imparted to them at the preaching of the coming of the Seed of the Woman is anyone's guess. You were not created with faith, and you are not born with it. But even if Adam and Eve were created with faith, or the natural capacity therefore, what God created is corrupted now. Why do you allude to the creation of the mind as if that somehow sanctifies or hallows it. It's corrupt and evil and weak. It's at enmity with God.

Well what do you know you don't believe in what you type either. Faith is not a Gift. Paul says every man is dealt a measure of faith. Faith is faith it means to trust or hope for. It is not a Gift as Calvinist falsely claim. Salvation is the Gift. Yet you know more about it than Paul. No where in scripture does it ever say faith is a gift
Eph 2:8 for by grace ye are having been saved, through faith, and this not of you—of God the gift,
There is no special kind of faith, Faith is still faith or scripture would have indicated two kinds.
MB

 

[Yeshua1]

Here Y1 again denies Romans 4, and claims God cannot take something imperfect or wrong or evil, and turn it into something good. I admit, every other Calvinist I have heard from believes God is all-powerful. But not this guy.

I know God is all powerful, as ONLY He can make a lost sinner able to understand and accept by His gift of faith Lord Jesus!

 

[Yeshua1]

Well what do you know you don't believe in what you type either. Faith is not a Gift. Paul says every man is dealt a measure of faith. Faith is faith it means to trust or hope for. It is not a Gift as Calvinist falsely claim. Salvation is the Gift. Yet you know more about it than Paul. No where in scripture does it ever say faith is a gift
Eph 2:8 for by grace ye are having been saved, through faith, and this not of you—of God the gift,
There is no special kind of faith, Faith is still faith or scripture would have indicated two kinds.
MB

Sin natures have no inherit saving faith!

 

[Van]

So the difference is you ... SNIP
.

On and on the falsehoods stream from this fount of disinformation. No quotes, just falsehoods.
Did anyone restrict viewpoints to the first century? Nope but there he goes...
He claims I agree with deists. Utter slander.
He claims I deny God draws (attracts) people. Utter falsehood. No quote, he just makes up falsehoods and posts them.
Next he claims God's revelation via inspired scripture is not supernatural. How long must I endure his slanderous attack on reality?
Next he claims I deny the Holy Spirit leads witnesses for Christ! How long must I endure his slanderous attack on reality.

Was Jesus anointed with the Holy Spirit? Yes
Did Jesus perform miracles with the power of the Holy Spirit? Yes
Were the writers of Holy scripture inspired, given not just the general idea, but the very words? Yes
Is the gospel the power of God for salvation? Yes
Did Jesus send our indwelt Helper to guide us? Yes
Have we witnessed with the help of our indwelt Holy Spirit? Yes.
Was this in the first century? Nope, all through the age from Christ to the end of the age.
Can anyone come to Christ without first being "drawn" by the Father? Nope
Was this only true in the first century? Nope, all through the age from Christ to the end of the age.

This poster has no regard for truth, he makes it up and posts falsehood after falsehood to derail discussion of the stepping stones to justification.

 

[Van]

I know God is all powerful, as ONLY He can make a lost sinner able to understand and accept by His gift of faith Lord Jesus!

So God can indeed credit our faith as righteousness. Good to know this Calvinist actually accepts Romans 4.

Pay no attention to the rest of the falsehoods, they are unbiblical and hinder our ambassadorship of Christ.

 

[Yeshua1]

So God can indeed credit our faith as righteousness. Good to know this Calvinist actually accepts Romans 4.

Pay no attention to the rest of the falsehoods, they are unbiblical and hinder our ambassadorship of Christ.

He can, due to Him giving that saving faith to us Himself!

 

[atpollard]

On and on the falsehoods stream from this fount of disinformation. No quotes, just falsehoods.
Did anyone restrict viewpoints to the first century? Nope but there he goes...
He claims I agree with deists. Utter slander.
He claims I deny God draws (attracts) people. Utter falsehood. No quote, he just makes up falsehoods and posts them.
Next he claims God's revelation via inspired scripture is not supernatural. How long must I endure his slanderous attack on reality?
Next he claims I deny the Holy Spirit leads witnesses for Christ! How long must I endure his slanderous attack on reality.

Was Jesus anointed with the Holy Spirit? Yes
Did Jesus perform miracles with the power of the Holy Spirit? Yes
Were the writers of Holy scripture inspired, given not just the general idea, but the very words? Yes
Is the gospel the power of God for salvation? Yes
Did Jesus send our indwelt Helper to guide us? Yes
Have we witnessed with the help of our indwelt Holy Spirit? Yes.
Was this in the first century? Nope, all through the age from Christ to the end of the age.
Can anyone come to Christ without first being "drawn" by the Father? Nope
Was this only true in the first century? Nope, all through the age from Christ to the end of the age.

This poster has no regard for truth, he makes it up and posts falsehood after falsehood to derail discussion of the stepping stones to justification.

ne respondeas stulto iuxta stultitiam suam ne efficiaris ei similis

 

[Van]

ne respondeas stulto iuxta stultitiam suam ne efficiaris ei similis

There is no helping this name calling, falsifying person, thinking implying others are fools, does not demonstrate a crippled mind. Proverbs 26:4 -Do not answer a fool according to his folly, Or you will also be like him.

 

[atpollard]

i intended no "implication" ... it was an explicit statement from scripture.
enjoy your folly.

 

[MB]

Sin natures have no inherit saving faith!

Where does the Bible say that?
MB

 

[Aaron]

Where does the Bible say that?
MB

What does the Bible say the source of faith is?

 

[kyredneck]

No matter how you slice it, Van-ity

Lol, he writes as if the whole world is reading his Calvinist bashing...

 

[MB]

What does the Bible say the source of faith is?

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
MB

 

[MB]

You're still describing a faith that a man possesses by nature, and not a faith that is imparted to the sheep. So, no. We're not talking about the same thing at all.

Where in scripture does it describe a different kind of faith? Seems to me that you are imagining there is more than one kind of faith spoken of in scripture.

But would you call the life of a child born something "shoved down its throat?" That you call the Second Birth something like that shows you have very little understanding of what is going on when someone is saved.

Actually the reverse is true. Here you claim a special kind of faith when there is only one kind that comes from the heart. Maybe you believe that faith is a gift that God gives men so they can believe. The gift in Eph 2:8 is Salvation not faith. Faith in Christ comes by hearing His word Rom 10:17.

No one said it did. God did not create men with faith. Adam and Eve did not walk by faith in their innocence, and whether or not it was imparted to them at the preaching of the coming of the Seed of the Woman is anyone's guess. You were not created with faith, and you are not born with it. But even if Adam and Eve were created with faith, or the natural capacity therefore, what God created is corrupted now. Why do you allude to the creation of the mind as if that somehow sanctifies or hallows it. It's corrupt and evil and weak. It's at enmity with God

.

I know you believe in your own philosophy but philosophy it is, Not scripture. Nothing you said in this last paragraph is from the Bible but is directly from you and since you cannot write scripture for your self I'll just ignore what you just spewed out of you mouth which is nonsense
MB