Biblical vs Reformed Salvation

[SavedByGrace]

I have a question relative to this part of the OP.

Rev 1:5 YLT and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the first-born out of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth; to him who did love us, and did bathe us from our sins in his blood, ----- I assume that is the, blood bath?

However the verse from Titus 3 states, through bath (that is, blood bath just like in Rev 1:5) of (because of the genitive tense) regeneration (that is, again becoming or as you put it again birth)

Titus 3:5 YLT (not by works that are in righteousness that we did but according to His kindness,) He did save us, through a bathing of regeneration, and a renewing of the Holy Spirit,

Let's talk a little about renewing of Holy Spirit.
Jesus said in John 16:7 'But I tell you the truth; it is better for you that I go away, for if I may not go away, the Comforter (the Holy Spirit) will not come unto you, and if I go on, I will send Him unto you; ----Let's compare to John 7:39 YLT and this he said of the Spirit, which those believing in him were about to receive; for not yet was the Holy Spirit, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

There will not even be the Holy Spirit to receive without bath blood (Going away in the obedient shedding of blood) (resulting in being glorified) (again becoming or as you put it again birth) through regeneration. Then and only then can the Holy Spirit be shed forth on us. Jesus then received the promise of the Holy Spirit from the Father Acts 2:33 renewal of Holy Spirit Titus 3:5 to be shed forth. See Titus 3:6

Acts 2:32,33 states the exactly same thing. Rev 1:5 actually says the same thing, The first born out of the dead (again birth) bathes our sins away is his blood.

If we get that part of the OP correct then we can go to the rest, thereof. It will change things.

Show me where the word of God does not state what is written above, from the word of God.

By the time I get to responding to this the thread will close as I live in England and nearing bed time

 

[Reformed1689]

So almost every Greek lexicon that defines kosmos here as the whole human race, are wrong?

Is that what I said?

 

[percho]

Setting aside the uninformed and incorrect view of the "Reformed" and simply accepting the above as fact at face value, I object to the next sentence ...



The author is stating facts not in evidence. Nowhere in Titus 3:5 does it claim that the Holy Spirit "uses the blood of Jesus Christ to “λουτρόν”, (bathe) the repentant sinner, and to “ἀνακαίνωσις” (renew) them by His conversion."

I call upon the author to provide scripture to support his claim that the Holy Spirit "uses the blood of Jesus Christ to “λουτρόν”, (bathe) the repentant sinner" or to admit the claim is not scriptural and retract it.

I call upon the author to provide scripture to support his claim that the Holy Spirit "uses the blood of Jesus Christ ... to “ἀνακαίνωσις” (renew) them by His conversion." or to admit the claim is not scriptural and retract it.

Per John 7:39 the Holy Spirit is relative to glorification of Jesus which required obedient death of Jesus and resurrection by the Father.. John 17:3 1 Peter 1:21 Rom 8:11

 

[SavedByGrace]

Is that what I said?

You said every individual, no

 

[percho]

By the time I get to responding to this the thread will close as I live in England and nearing bed time

I hate the closing of threads. Sleep tight.

 

[SavedByGrace]

I hate the closing of threads. Sleep tight.

Start a new thread

 

[SavedByGrace]

I hate the closing of threads. Sleep tight.

I could do a new one

 

[Reformed1689]

You said every individual, no

Yes, then you said I said it doesn't mean the human race. So did you mistype or are you purposefully misleading about what I did or did not write?

 

[percho]

I will look tomorrow for I will be going to church shortly.

 

[SavedByGrace]

I hate the closing of threads. Sleep tight.

Biblical vs Reformed Salvatio. Cont...

 

[SavedByGrace]

Yes, then you said I said it doesn't mean the human race. So did you mistype or are you purposefully misleading about what I did or did not write?

lets get this very clear, would you agree with the majority of Greek works that define "kosmos" in John 3:16, as “the inhabitants of the earth, the human race” (J H Thayer, Lexicon, p.357); and others. And "whosoever" as John Calvin says, "everyone without exception"?

 

[percho]

Can any of you reading not see the sameness of Acts 2:32,33 Titus 3:5,6 and even Rev 1:5 and 6 for HS if you take under consideration of anointing as kings and priests.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Can any of you reading not see the sameness of Acts 2:32,33 Titus 3:5,6 and even Rev 1:5 and 6 for HS if you take under consideration of anointing as kings and priests.

can you move this and your long one to the new thread, please, and I will look at them tomorrow. Good night to all and God bless!

 

[AustinC]

you are BLIND!

[emoji23]Roflmao

Are you a clown? [emoji23]D

Because your response is a joke!

These are the arguments of the one person who is arguing a view that no one else believes.
Is there really any use talking to such a person who speaks like this?
Such responses are enough to know the OP has lost the argument.

 

[Reformed1689]

lets get this very clear, would you agree with the majority of Greek works that define "kosmos" in John 3:16, as “the inhabitants of the earth, the human race” (J H Thayer, Lexicon, p.357); and others. And "whosoever" as John Calvin says, "everyone without exception"?

I am saying that is an oversimplification of the issue and doesn't take into account actual nuance of usage.

 

[atpollard]

Do you know this for a fact, that he does not have any Reformed books on theology, or reads them online, or attends a Church that is "Reformed"?

I know what he claims and have no reason to believe that he has lied to me about his journey in the faith.

I would extend the same assumption to any claim you made about your journey in the faith.

 

[atpollard]

Please read the verse again, "For godly sorrow produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly sorrow produces death."

If the "godly sorrow", "produces a repentance that leads to salvation"; how then can this be a "fruit", which is something that is "after"?. A sinner does not first bear the "fruits of repentance" what John the Baptist speaks of, and then is required to get baptised, "for repentance" (Matthew 3:11). It is the other way round!

What is the larger context?

Who is the writer speaking to and what is the broader topic that he is talking about? (YOU TELL ME.)

[This is an example of what I meant when I said that TRUTH was not found by exchanging single verses torn from their surrounding context.]

 

[atpollard]

There are some, like R C Sproul, that teach that a sinner does not require to "repent and believe in the Gospel", as Jesus teaches in Mark 1:15, so that they may be saved. They see "repentance" as a "work", which is complete rubbish, as it is the obeying of the just demand by God for all sinners, and not any "merit" involved by the sinner.

Could you link to where R.C. Sproul says that? I have a strong suspicion that it is misunderstanding something being taken out of context because RC Sproul was not against repentance.

 

[Reformed1689]

Could you link to where R.C. Sproul says that? I have a strong suspicion that it is misunderstanding something being taken out of context because RC Sproul was not against repentance.

Exactly. If anything, RC harped on people not repenting enough!

 

[Iconoclast]

whatever. As Steven Baugh has shown, and I have found from my own studies, this notion that verses 3-14 are one sentence in the original Greek, is wrong! there you have it.

NETBible: Ephesians 1:3-14

Ephesians 1:3-14 is One Sentence in Greek: Where to Start

In Christ: In One Sentence;
It’s well known that Ephesians 1:3-14 is one long sentence in Greek. The following is from the ESV but I’ve made some of the pronouns more explicit to highlight the way in which Paul sees the Christian life—from before the foundation of the world to eternity—as bound up with the idea of union with Christ.


Grace is a Gift | Ephesians 1:3-14

Punctuating the Bible - The Aquila Report

Ephesians 1 | Bible.org
Ephesians 1:3-4 Commentary | Precept Austin
Ray Stedman writes that "There is an unusual structure in this passage to which I'd like to call your attention. From Verse 3 through Verse 14 in the Greek text (not in the English) you have one complete, unbroken sentence filled with many adjectival phrases brought in to amplify and enrich it. If you want to get the effect of it, take a deep breath and try to read it through with one breath. You will see how much Paul has crammed into this great sentence. It's almost as though he is taking a walk through a treasure chamber, like those of the Pharaohs of Egypt, describing what he sees. He starts out with the most immediate and evident fact and tells us what that is. Then something else comes into view and he puts that in. And glory flashes upon glory here until he has this tremendously complicated sentence which includes vast and almost indescribable riches...You see, these are much more than mere doctrinal ambiguities, mere theological ideas. They are facts, foundational truths which undergird us in every moment of our life. And, unless you understand those facts, you can't utilize them, you can't benefit from them. In that way they are like natural laws. The laws of nature operate regardless of how we feel -- they are impersonal in that respect. I've been doing a bit of electrical work in an addition to my home, and I've discovered that electricity follows a pattern of its own and takes no notice of how I feel at the moment. That can be a shocking experience! It is not in the slightest degree impressed with my position as a pastor of Peninsula Bible Church. It doesn't hesitate to retaliate for any violation of its laws that I commit. It is up to me to discover how it works, and then to respect it, if I want to utilize it. The same thing is true of these great facts. They will do you not a particle of good if you don't discover what they are and believe them enough to operate on the basis of them. That is why we are having this study together. We couldn't possibly cover in one message all that is wrapped up in these great truths, and I don't want to attempt it. We want to take our time going through this passage so that we might grasp these fundamental facts. (Ephesians 1::3-14: Foundations)

Notice that in a single verse Paul uses the entire word family -- the adjective (eulogetos), the verb (eulogeo) and the noun (eulogia) and the sentence still makes supernatural sense not nonsense as the natural man foolishly surmises!

Blessed (2128) (eulogetos from eu = good + logos = word - English "eulogy" = a speech or writing that praises someone highly) is the adjective describing the One Who is worthy of praise and in the NT is rightly used only of God and Christ Jesus. Rarely eulogetos is actually used as a Name for God -- "the Blessed One" (Mark 14:61).

Eulogetos - 8x in 8v - Mk 14:61; Luke 1:68; Ro 1:25; 9:5; 2 Cor 1:3; 11:31; Eph 1:3; 1 Pet 1:3