SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
“knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward you, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance” – (2 Peter 3:3-9)
Bible versions like the King James and New King James, read “us” (ἡμᾶς) instead of “you” (ὑμᾶς), as in “longsuffering toward you”. However, the textual evidence for the reading “you” is by far the oldest and strongest, and no doubt the original.
English versions that read “YOU”:
NIV, NLT, ESV, BSB, NASB, CSB, HCSB, ISV, NAS, ASV, Douay, ERV, WNT, AB, BEB, BV, Darby, Goodspeed, Moffatt, JB, etc, which is 99% of the English Bibles!
The oldest Greek manuscript that we have for “you”, is the Papyri known as P72, which dates from the 3rd/4th century A.D. For the reading “us”, there is the codex K, which dates from the 9th century. For other early textual evidence, for the reading “you”, we have the Old Latin version, which dates from the 2nd century (Dr A Souter; The Text and Canon of the New Testament, p.31), which was based on the Greek manuscripts of the time. We also have the principal Greek manuscripts, the Codices Sinaiticus and Vaticanus, both of the 4th century, the Alexandrinus of the 5th. Also the Latin Vulgate of St Jerome of the 4th century, who used Greek manuscripts that were available to him, which would have been older. Of the other ancient versions, we can add the Egyptian Coptic versions, the Sahidic and Bohairic, of the 3rd century. Next, the Georgian and Armenian versions, both from the 5th century. Then, the Syriac Phiolxeniana, of the 6th century, and Syriac Harklensis of the 7th. Of the early Church leaders and theologians, we have Augustine (354-430 A.D.), who, though of the “Latin” Church, also read Greek. Pelagius (360-420); Fulgentius (460-533), who were also from the “Latin” Church.
For the reading “us”, there is only the one ancient version also from the 9th century, which is the Slavonic.
There can be no doubt that the textual evidence overwhelmingly supports the reading, “ὑμᾶς”, as the original. The other reading is of a very late date, as there is no evidence before the 9th century.
The teachings of this passage in 2 Peter chapter 3 is very important. The reading “towards us”, is narrow in its meaning, as refers to the Christians to whom Peter wrote this Epistle. However, with the reading as “YOU”, which is now considered by 99% of the evidence as being the original as written by the Apostle Peter, refers, not only to the “Christians”, but also includes those Peter speaks of earlier, “the scoffers…ungodly men”. In fact, we can also go back to chapter 2, verse 1, “But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction”, as these “false prophets…false teachers…heretics”, etc, etc, are also included in the YOU of 3:9!
It is very clear from passages like that in Ezekiel 18, and Jonah 4, that the Lord is very merciful towards all sinners, and not just a certain few which is falsly taught by the Reformed/Calvinst.
“Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord God, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?... For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Lord God; so turn, and live.” (Ezekiel 18:23, 32)
The word “pleasure” in the Hebrew “châphêts” has the meaning of “to desire, to will”.
The comments in the Reformed commentary by Jamieson, Faussett and Brown, are very interesting, which is exactly what the Bible from Genesis to Revelation teaches!
“Verse 23. Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? - (1Ti 2:4; 2Pe 3:9). If men perish, it is because they will not come to the Lord for salvation, not that the Lord is not willing to save them (Joh 5:40). They trample on not merely justice, but mercy: what further hope can there be for them when even mercy is against them? (Heb. 10:26-20)
“And should not I pity Nineveh, that great city, in which there are more than 120,000 persons who do not know their right hand from their left, and also much cattle?” (Jonah 4:11)
“Pity” here is “chûs” which means “to have compassion on”, by the Good Lord bringing salvation to the entire city Nineveh, who were utterly corrupt and wicked people! And yet the Lord desired their salvation!
It IS the heart of the God of the Holy Bible, Who SO loves His own creation, the entire human race, that He sent the Lord Jesus Christ, to die for the sins of ALL sinners, including Judas, as is very clear in Luke 22:14-23. However, ALL sinners must comply with the Just Demands of the Lord, and “Repent and Believe in the Good News” (Mark 1:15), so that they might be saved!
Bible versions like the King James and New King James, read “us” (ἡμᾶς) instead of “you” (ὑμᾶς), as in “longsuffering toward you”. However, the textual evidence for the reading “you” is by far the oldest and strongest, and no doubt the original.
English versions that read “YOU”:
NIV, NLT, ESV, BSB, NASB, CSB, HCSB, ISV, NAS, ASV, Douay, ERV, WNT, AB, BEB, BV, Darby, Goodspeed, Moffatt, JB, etc, which is 99% of the English Bibles!
The oldest Greek manuscript that we have for “you”, is the Papyri known as P72, which dates from the 3rd/4th century A.D. For the reading “us”, there is the codex K, which dates from the 9th century. For other early textual evidence, for the reading “you”, we have the Old Latin version, which dates from the 2nd century (Dr A Souter; The Text and Canon of the New Testament, p.31), which was based on the Greek manuscripts of the time. We also have the principal Greek manuscripts, the Codices Sinaiticus and Vaticanus, both of the 4th century, the Alexandrinus of the 5th. Also the Latin Vulgate of St Jerome of the 4th century, who used Greek manuscripts that were available to him, which would have been older. Of the other ancient versions, we can add the Egyptian Coptic versions, the Sahidic and Bohairic, of the 3rd century. Next, the Georgian and Armenian versions, both from the 5th century. Then, the Syriac Phiolxeniana, of the 6th century, and Syriac Harklensis of the 7th. Of the early Church leaders and theologians, we have Augustine (354-430 A.D.), who, though of the “Latin” Church, also read Greek. Pelagius (360-420); Fulgentius (460-533), who were also from the “Latin” Church.
For the reading “us”, there is only the one ancient version also from the 9th century, which is the Slavonic.
There can be no doubt that the textual evidence overwhelmingly supports the reading, “ὑμᾶς”, as the original. The other reading is of a very late date, as there is no evidence before the 9th century.
The teachings of this passage in 2 Peter chapter 3 is very important. The reading “towards us”, is narrow in its meaning, as refers to the Christians to whom Peter wrote this Epistle. However, with the reading as “YOU”, which is now considered by 99% of the evidence as being the original as written by the Apostle Peter, refers, not only to the “Christians”, but also includes those Peter speaks of earlier, “the scoffers…ungodly men”. In fact, we can also go back to chapter 2, verse 1, “But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction”, as these “false prophets…false teachers…heretics”, etc, etc, are also included in the YOU of 3:9!
It is very clear from passages like that in Ezekiel 18, and Jonah 4, that the Lord is very merciful towards all sinners, and not just a certain few which is falsly taught by the Reformed/Calvinst.
“Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord God, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?... For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Lord God; so turn, and live.” (Ezekiel 18:23, 32)
The word “pleasure” in the Hebrew “châphêts” has the meaning of “to desire, to will”.
The comments in the Reformed commentary by Jamieson, Faussett and Brown, are very interesting, which is exactly what the Bible from Genesis to Revelation teaches!
“Verse 23. Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? - (1Ti 2:4; 2Pe 3:9). If men perish, it is because they will not come to the Lord for salvation, not that the Lord is not willing to save them (Joh 5:40). They trample on not merely justice, but mercy: what further hope can there be for them when even mercy is against them? (Heb. 10:26-20)
“And should not I pity Nineveh, that great city, in which there are more than 120,000 persons who do not know their right hand from their left, and also much cattle?” (Jonah 4:11)
“Pity” here is “chûs” which means “to have compassion on”, by the Good Lord bringing salvation to the entire city Nineveh, who were utterly corrupt and wicked people! And yet the Lord desired their salvation!
It IS the heart of the God of the Holy Bible, Who SO loves His own creation, the entire human race, that He sent the Lord Jesus Christ, to die for the sins of ALL sinners, including Judas, as is very clear in Luke 22:14-23. However, ALL sinners must comply with the Just Demands of the Lord, and “Repent and Believe in the Good News” (Mark 1:15), so that they might be saved!
