1 Peter 2:24

[atpollard]

@Brightfame52

Those Christ died for were saved by His death, what does Peter say to these believers 1 Pet 2:24

24 who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Now what do think stripes mean here ? And what do you believe healed is here ?

Question 1: Now what do think stripes mean here ?

I think that “stripes” is a reference to the scourging of Christ.

• [Matthew 27:24-31 NASB] 24 When Pilate saw that he was accomplishing nothing, but rather that a riot was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd, saying, "I am innocent of this Man's blood; see [to that] yourselves." 25 And all the people said, "His blood shall be on us and on our children!" 26 Then he released Barabbas for them; but after having Jesus scourged, he handed Him over to be crucified. 27 Then the soldiers of the governor took Jesus into the Praetorium and gathered the whole [Roman] cohort around Him. 28 They stripped Him and put a scarlet robe on Him. 29 And after twisting together a crown of thorns, they put it on His head, and a reed in His right hand; and they knelt down before Him and mocked Him, saying, "Hail, King of the Jews!" 30 They spat on Him, and took the reed and [began] to beat Him on the head. 31 After they had mocked Him, they took the [scarlet] robe off Him and put His [own] garments back on Him, and led Him away to crucify Him.
  
• [Mark 15:15-20 NASB] 15 Wishing to satisfy the crowd, Pilate released Barabbas for them, and after having Jesus scourged, he handed Him over to be crucified. 16 The soldiers took Him away into the palace (that is, the Praetorium), and they called together the whole [Roman] cohort. 17 They dressed Him up in purple, and after twisting a crown of thorns, they put it on Him; 18 and they began to acclaim Him, "Hail, King of the Jews!" 19 They kept beating His head with a reed, and spitting on Him, and kneeling and bowing before Him. 20 After they had mocked Him, they took the purple robe off Him and put His [own] garments on Him. And they led Him out to crucify Him.
• [Luke 18:31-34 NASB] 31 Then He took the twelve aside and said to them, "Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and all things which are written through the prophets about the Son of Man will be accomplished. 32 "For He will be handed over to the Gentiles, and will be mocked and mistreated and spit upon, 33 and after they have scourged Him, they will kill Him; and the third day He will rise again." 34 But the disciples understood none of these things, and [the meaning of] this statement was hidden from them, and they did not comprehend the things that were said.
  
• [Luke 23:18-25 NASB] 18 But they cried out all together, saying, "Away with this man, and release for us Barabbas!" 19 (He was one who had been thrown into prison for an insurrection made in the city, and for murder.) 20 Pilate, wanting to release Jesus, addressed them again, 21 but they kept on calling out, saying, "Crucify, crucify Him!" 22 And he said to them the third time, "Why, what evil has this man done? I have found in Him no guilt [demanding] death; therefore I will punish Him and release Him." 23 But they were insistent, with loud voices asking that He be crucified. And their voices [began] to prevail. 24 And Pilate pronounced sentence that their demand be granted. 25 And he released the man they were asking for who had been thrown into prison for insurrection and murder, but he delivered Jesus to their will.
  
• [John 19:1-3 NASB] 1 Pilate then took Jesus and scourged Him. 2 And the soldiers twisted together a crown of thorns and put it on His head, and put a purple robe on Him; 3 and they [began] to come up to Him and say, "Hail, King of the Jews!" and to give Him slaps [in the face.]

Question 2: And what do you believe healed is here ?

I believe that our guilt was healed here. As it says:

• [Isaiah 53:4-6 NASB] 4 Surely our griefs He Himself bore, And our sorrows He carried; Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, Smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being [fell] upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed. 6 All of us like sheep have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all To fall on Him.

 

[Guvnuh]

Yes
Healed spiritually through his physical suffering and death.

 

[Marooncat79]

Everything is healed. The physical is healed only through the resurrection!

 

[Guvnuh]

Right ye are cat.

 

[Van]

Here is the deal: False teachers claim when Christ died on the cross, immediately every individual chosen before creation was healed (saved).

Only two problems:
1) 1 Peter 2:9-10 precludes individual election before creation, because if true then we would have always been a people.
2) If everyone to be saved has already been saved, we would not have the ministry of reconciliation.

Oh well, carry on...

 

[Brightfame52]

@Brightfame52


Question 1: Now what do think stripes mean here ?

I think that “stripes” is a reference to the scourging of Christ.

• [Matthew 27:24-31 NASB] 24 When Pilate saw that he was accomplishing nothing, but rather that a riot was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd, saying, "I am innocent of this Man's blood; see [to that] yourselves." 25 And all the people said, "His blood shall be on us and on our children!" 26 Then he released Barabbas for them; but after having Jesus scourged, he handed Him over to be crucified. 27 Then the soldiers of the governor took Jesus into the Praetorium and gathered the whole [Roman] cohort around Him. 28 They stripped Him and put a scarlet robe on Him. 29 And after twisting together a crown of thorns, they put it on His head, and a reed in His right hand; and they knelt down before Him and mocked Him, saying, "Hail, King of the Jews!" 30 They spat on Him, and took the reed and [began] to beat Him on the head. 31 After they had mocked Him, they took the [scarlet] robe off Him and put His [own] garments back on Him, and led Him away to crucify Him.
  
• [Mark 15:15-20 NASB] 15 Wishing to satisfy the crowd, Pilate released Barabbas for them, and after having Jesus scourged, he handed Him over to be crucified. 16 The soldiers took Him away into the palace (that is, the Praetorium), and they called together the whole [Roman] cohort. 17 They dressed Him up in purple, and after twisting a crown of thorns, they put it on Him; 18 and they began to acclaim Him, "Hail, King of the Jews!" 19 They kept beating His head with a reed, and spitting on Him, and kneeling and bowing before Him. 20 After they had mocked Him, they took the purple robe off Him and put His [own] garments on Him. And they led Him out to crucify Him.
• [Luke 18:31-34 NASB] 31 Then He took the twelve aside and said to them, "Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and all things which are written through the prophets about the Son of Man will be accomplished. 32 "For He will be handed over to the Gentiles, and will be mocked and mistreated and spit upon, 33 and after they have scourged Him, they will kill Him; and the third day He will rise again." 34 But the disciples understood none of these things, and [the meaning of] this statement was hidden from them, and they did not comprehend the things that were said.
  
• [Luke 23:18-25 NASB] 18 But they cried out all together, saying, "Away with this man, and release for us Barabbas!" 19 (He was one who had been thrown into prison for an insurrection made in the city, and for murder.) 20 Pilate, wanting to release Jesus, addressed them again, 21 but they kept on calling out, saying, "Crucify, crucify Him!" 22 And he said to them the third time, "Why, what evil has this man done? I have found in Him no guilt [demanding] death; therefore I will punish Him and release Him." 23 But they were insistent, with loud voices asking that He be crucified. And their voices [began] to prevail. 24 And Pilate pronounced sentence that their demand be granted. 25 And he released the man they were asking for who had been thrown into prison for insurrection and murder, but he delivered Jesus to their will.
  
• [John 19:1-3 NASB] 1 Pilate then took Jesus and scourged Him. 2 And the soldiers twisted together a crown of thorns and put it on His head, and put a purple robe on Him; 3 and they [began] to come up to Him and say, "Hail, King of the Jews!" and to give Him slaps [in the face.]

Question 2: And what do you believe healed is here ?

I believe that our guilt was healed here. As it says:

• [Isaiah 53:4-6 NASB] 4 Surely our griefs He Himself bore, And our sorrows He carried; Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, Smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being [fell] upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed. 6 All of us like sheep have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all To fall on Him.

His stripes i believe is speaking about His death, the shedding of His Blood, all the suffering that culminated in His death. The healing I believe is another word for saved, their Salvation experience. Heal is the greek word iaomai:

1. to cure, heal
   
   
2. to make whole
   
   
   1. to free from errors and sins, to bring about (one's) salvation
      

It effects a conversion experience.

 

[atpollard]

Here is the deal: False teachers claim when Christ died on the cross, immediately every individual chosen before creation was healed (saved).

Other false teachers claim when Christ died on the cross, immediately every individual without exception was healed (saved) ... [Universalism]. However no orthodox Christian believes either of those false beliefs. Certainly Reformed Theologians teach no such thing.

 

[Dave G]

Question 1: Now what do think stripes mean here ?

I think that “stripes” is a reference to the scourging of Christ.

Amen.

Question 2: And what do you believe healed is here ?

I believe that our guilt was healed here.

Amen again.

 

[Dave G]

when Christ died on the cross, immediately every individual chosen before creation was healed (saved).

How about not saved, physically or "temporally"...
But healed.

What was done for His sheep on the cross made restitution to His Father for the whole group...
We were reconciled to God by the death of His Son ( Romans 5:10 ).

Also, by His stripes we ( all the elect ) were healed, as a people.

Only two problems:
1) 1 Peter 2:9-10 precludes individual election before creation, because if true then we would have always been a people.
2) If everyone to be saved has already been saved, we would not have the ministry of reconciliation.

I don't see these as "problems" at all, Van.
Here's what I see:

1) 1 Peter 2:9-10 affirms individual election because it is not talking about sinners who were never God's people from the foundation of the world...
It is referring to Gentiles who were not formerly included in the covenants of God, nor were they witnesses to His miracles and prophecies ( they were not His people, covenantally, but would be, someday...as Hosea prophesied in Hosea 1:10-11, Hosea 2:21-23 and is mentioned in Romans 9:24-26 ).

1 Peter is written to "the strangers" who were scattered throughout the Gentile nations ( 1 Peter 1:1-2 ).
"Strangers" is a term found in the Old Testament that describes those non-Jews ( Isaiah 14:1, Isaiah 56:6 ) who had joined themselves to Israel and agreed to live under the terms of the first covenant.

The Gentile elect were "not a people" ( in the temporal or earthly sense ), but were strangers to those covenants, historically;
That is, until they were grafted in to spiritual Israel ( Romans 11:13-31 ) under the new covenant in Christ's blood.
But they were always elect and were always chosen in Him from the foundation of the world ( Ephesians 1:4-5 ).
Paul reminds the Ephesians of all of this in Ephesians 1 and Ephesians 2, especially in Ephesians 2:11-22.

2) If everyone to be saved, God's elect, has already been saved ( in the temporal or earthly sense ), then I would agree...
But they had and have yet to be "called" into the fellowship of the saints.

The apostle Paul would not have had a ministry of telling people of their reconciliation to God, if preaching and teaching were not necessary ingredients that the Lord has ordained as a means to an end...

His gathering His saints to Himself in this world, and His glorification among His saints in both this and the next.

 

[Brightfame52]

How about not saved, physically or "temporally"...
But healed.

What was done for His sheep on the cross made restitution to His Father for the whole group...
We were reconciled to God by the death of His Son ( Romans 5:10 ).

Also, by His stripes we ( all the elect ) were healed, as a people.

I don't see these as "problems" at all, Van.
Here's what I see:

1) 1 Peter 2:9-10 affirms individual election because it is not talking about sinners who were never God's people from the foundation of the world...
It is referring to Gentiles who were not formerly included in the covenants of God, nor were they witnesses to His miracles and prophecies ( they were not His people, covenantally, but would be, someday...as Hosea prophesied in Hosea 1:10-11, Hosea 2:21-23 and is mentioned in Romans 9:24-26 ).

1 Peter is written to "the strangers" who were scattered throughout the Gentile nations ( 1 Peter 1:1-2 ).
"Strangers" is a term found in the Old Testament that describes those non-Jews ( Isaiah 14:1, Isaiah 56:6 ) who had joined themselves to Israel and agreed to live under the terms of the first covenant.

The Gentile elect were "not a people" ( in the temporal or earthly sense ), but were strangers to those covenants, historically;
That is, until they were grafted in to spiritual Israel ( Romans 11:13-31 ) under the new covenant in Christ's blood.
But they were always elect and were always chosen in Him from the foundation of the world ( Ephesians 1:4-5 ).
Paul reminds the Ephesians of all of this in Ephesians 1 and Ephesians 2, especially in Ephesians 2:11-22.

2) If everyone to be saved, God's elect, has already been saved ( in the temporal or earthly sense ), then I would agree...
But they had and have yet to be "called" into the fellowship of the saints.

The apostle Paul would not have had a ministry of telling people of their reconciliation to God, if preaching and teaching were not necessary ingredients that the Lord has ordained as a means to an end...

His gathering His saints to Himself in this world, and His glorification among His saints in both this and the next.

Very well stated !

 

[Van]

Snip

I don't see these as "problems" at all, Van.
Here's what I see:

1) 1 Peter 2:9-10 affirms individual election because it is not talking about sinners who were never God's people from the foundation of the world...
It is referring to Gentiles who were not formerly included in the covenants of God, nor were they witnesses to His miracles and prophecies ( they were not His people, covenantally, but would be, someday...as Hosea prophesied in Hosea 1:10-11, Hosea 2:21-23 and is mentioned in Romans 9:24-26 ). Snip

Folks, one of the ways false teachers nullify scripture is to claim the verse is not applicable to the issue.

1 Peter is written to Christians, whether they were primarily Jews or Gentiles is in dispute, but the audience included both, thus the claim the audience was exclusively Gentiles is bogus. 1 Peter 2:2 refers to the audience as having been saved, (so you may grow in respect to salvation). The audience has been called out of darkness, applicable to both believing Jews and believing Gentiles. To deny the audience included Jews, with all the OT imagery is ludicrous.

Bottom line, 1 Peter 2:9-10 precludes that the election of Epheisans 1:4 was individual, because if so then we would have always been "a people" but scripture says once we were not a people. It is a lock.

 

[Van]

Other false teachers claim when Christ died on the cross, immediately every individual without exception was healed (saved) ... [Universalism]. However no orthodox Christian believes either of those false beliefs. Certainly Reformed Theologians teach no such thing.

Non-germane, neither view is scriptural. Christ laid down His life as a ransom for all, thus providing the means of salvation for all, but only those God places into Christ are saved.

 

[atpollard]

Christ laid down His life as a ransom for all, thus providing the means of salvation for all

I agree in principle. The death on the Cross was sufficient for all mankind and effective for all of those that believe. Clearly all the sins of those that stand “already judged” (John 3:18) are not forgiven since they will ultimately land in the lake of fire for the sin of unbelief.

but only those God places into Christ are saved.

Wrong verb tense ... only those God “placed” into Christ are saved.

[John 10:27-29 NASB] 27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 "My Father, who has given [them] to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch [them] out of the Father's hand.

 

[Dave G]

Folks, one of the ways false teachers nullify scripture is to claim the verse is not applicable to the issue.

Van,
False teachers are known by their fruits ( Matthew 7:15-20 )
Those fruits can be found here, in Galatians 5:19-23.

If you can honestly say that by my fruits I am a false teacher ( and thus a liar and claiming to be one of the saved and in reality am not ), then I'll consider it and take it under serious advisement.
I have no wish to declare things to anyone, that are not Scriptural.

That said, I'm not nullifying Scripture at all.
In fact, I view God's words as precious and not to be treated lightly.

I do hope that you can say the same.

1 Peter is written to Christians, whether they were primarily Jews or Gentiles is in dispute, but the audience included both, thus the claim the audience was exclusively Gentiles is bogus.

Thank you for your evaluation, Van, but I'm sorry to have to disagree with you.

1 Peter 2:2 refers to the audience as having been saved, (so you may grow in respect to salvation).

I agree.

The audience has been called out of darkness, applicable to both believing Jews and believing Gentiles.

Again I agree.

 

[Dave G]

To deny the audience included Jews, with all the OT imagery is ludicrous.

*Ludicrous*:

so foolish, unreasonable, or out of place as to be amusing; ridiculous.
"it's ludicrous that I have been fined"

Van, do you realize that you come off as seeming superior when you post comments?
I've not attacked you, personally, in any way that I am aware of;
All I have done is disagreed with you and told you why.

I see no grounds for you to have reacted the way that you did, by claiming that the contents of my post are worthy of ridicule.

Bottom line, 1 Peter 2:9-10 precludes that the election of Epheisans 1:4 was individual, because if so then we would have always been "a people" but scripture says once we were not a people. It is a lock.

I appreciate that you see it one way and I another, and respect your opinion on the matter;
But we will have to agree to disagree.

To me, the words of Ephesians 1 are clear:

" Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:
4 according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 in whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8 wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9 having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 that in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11 in whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12 that we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 in whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory." ( Ephesians 1:3-14 ).

Individuals, chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world.



As always, may God bless you with patience and wisdom as you consider the words that I've posted.

 

[Van]

Wrong verb tense ... “placed”

[John 10:27-29 NASB] 27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 "My Father, who has given [them] to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch [them] out of the Father's hand.

Wrong verb tense, places is correct, because people are still being called out of darkness and transferred into the kingdom of Christ.
Folks, here we see the expansionist addition to the text, where "has given to Me" becomes "has given all of them to Me." So they make an assumption then cite the misinterpreted text as support. God is still giving new believers to Christ.

 

[Van]

*Ludicrous*:
SNIP
Individuals, chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world.

The view that 1 Peter was written exclusively to Gentiles is ludicrous.
The alternate view that 1 Peter was written exclusively to the Gentiles is ludicrous.

Peter uses OT imagery, thus appealing to Jewish readership, but also uses imagery appealing to former lives of Gentiles.

 

[atpollard]

Wrong verb tense, places is correct, because people are still being called out of darkness and transferred into the kingdom of Christ.
Folks, here we see the expansionist addition to the text, where "has given to Me" becomes "has given all of them to Me." So they make an assumption then cite the misinterpreted text as support. God is still giving new believers to Christ.

Your complete lack of any scripture reference, while rejecting those scripture verses presented to you is noted.

As for me and my house, we will believe the Word of God over the opinions of Van.

Shalom (peace and well being)

 

[Van]

Your complete lack of any scripture reference, while rejecting those scripture verses presented to you is noted.

As for me and my house, we will believe the Word of God over the opinions of Van.

Shalom (peace and well being)

Good grief, John 10:28 has give in the present tense. Your claims are simply bogus.

Everyone who believes (present tense)into Him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16

Your complete lack of scriptural support for your bogus views are telling.

 

[Dave G]

Good grief, John 10:28 has give in the present tense. Your claims are simply bogus.

The view that 1 Peter was written exclusively to Gentiles is ludicrous.
The alternate view that 1 Peter was written exclusively to the Gentiles is ludicrous.

Van,
Emulations ( seeking to be superior to people ) is a bad fruit.
By calling someone's comments "ludicrous", you are saying that they are worthy of open ridicule by all that see, hear and read them.

I encourage you to pray that God make you aware of your behavior, and again, I hope you consider my words in the spirit that they are given.

" For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only [use] not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another." ( Galatians 5:13 ).