Are Human Beings Born Sinners?

[SavedByGrace]

It doesn't say they don't do any right or wrong. That's absurd. It says they don't know right from wrong. Those are two very different things. Besides, I don't need your reasoning. God tells us ALL have sinned. Romans 3:23.

from the text in Isaiah, "before the boy knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good"

and Ronams, "had done nothing either good or bad", which is for the unborn child

Deal with these

 

[Dave G]

To answer your OP, all human beings are born sinners.
Psalms 58:3 should be enough to establish this.

 

[Dave G]

on what basis did David's young son go to heaven? Repentance and faith? Trusting in the Lord?

That's for another thread, wouldn't you say?
Also, I do not hold that David's son went to Heaven.

But David did say that he would see him again.

 

[Reformed1689]

on what basis did David's young son go to heaven? Repentance and faith? Trusting in the Lord?

To be fair, the text does not actually state that David's son went to Heaven.

 

[Reformed1689]

from the text in Isaiah, "before the boy knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good"

and Ronams, "had done nothing either good or bad", which is for the unborn child

Deal with these

We aren't talking about the unborn. We are talking about the born. And yes, in Isaiah, it says before the boy KNOWS it doesn't say before the boy DOES. Big difference.

Furthermore, you have to deal with Romans 3:23

 

[Dave G]

from the text in Isaiah, "before the boy knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good"

Prophecy of the coming Messiah...
Isaiah 7:14-16.

Before He knows to refuse the evil and to choose the good.
i think that you're focusing on the possibility of someone neither doing good or evil and possibly being sin-free.

Only one Man ever did that...
See Isaiah 7:14-16.

and Ronams, "had done nothing either good or bad", which is for the unborn child

Yes, it is.
Yet, Romans 3:23 still stands, SBG.

No one gets a "free pass".

 

[SavedByGrace]

That's for another thread, wouldn't you say?
Also, I do not hold that David's son went to Heaven.

But David did say that he would see him again.

David said, "I am going to him, but he will not return to me.”, very clear that the child is in heaven, or do you think David is in hell?

 

[SavedByGrace]

We aren't talking about the unborn. We are talking about the born. And yes, in Isaiah, it says before the boy KNOWS it doesn't say before the boy DOES. Big difference.

Furthermore, you have to deal with Romans 3:23

There is a time when very young children do NOT know "right from wrong", this is what the Bible says. No point in keeping on with the same verse from Romans, which is for those who HAVE sinned! All have SINNED, but the Bible says that these have NOT!

 

[SavedByGrace]

Yet, Romans 3:23 still stands, SBG.

read #48

 

[Reformed1689]

David said, "I am going to him, but he will not return to me.”, very clear that the child is in heaven, or do you think David is in hell?

It could just be referring to the place of the dead. Or just death in general. It does not specifically say Heaven. Some interpret it that way but we have to be mindful of the fact that is not what it states.

 

[Dave G]

on what basis did David's young son go to heaven? Repentance and faith? Trusting in the Lord?

The Bible does not tells us this, SBG.
Plus, it doesn't say that he went to Heaven.

Only that David would go to him.

 

[Dave G]

read #48

Read Romans 3:10-18.

"None" righteous means none.

 

[Reformed1689]

There is a time when very young children do NOT know "right from wrong", this is what the Bible says. No point in keeping on with the same verse from Romans, which is for those who HAVE sinned! All have SINNED, but the Bible says that these have NOT!

No it doesn't. Not knowing if something is sin doesn't mean you have not sinned. So YES, you DO have to deal with Romans 3:23 or say the Bible contradicts itself. Does the Bible contradict itself? No. Of course not. Nor does it say that children have not sinned. You are reading that into the text. Though, I can't understand how you read that into the text. It is nowhere to be found there.

 

[SavedByGrace]

It could just be referring to the place of the dead. Or just death in general. It does not specifically say Heaven. Some interpret it that way but we have to be mindful of the fact that is not what it states.

this is pure conjecture. I will stick with the Bible, which is very clear, that after David was told that his son had died, he rejoiced, because he was going to join him after he died, and that is not in hell!

 

[SavedByGrace]

Read Romans 3:10-18.

you do NOT understand because of you theology! Only AFTER a person SINS, they are SINNERS. The verse in Isaiah and Romans show that young children of a certain age, are NOT guilty. this is the Bible. I am not going to argue any more on this, because you like Reformed1689, are bound by your theology!

 

[Reformed1689]

this is pure conjecture. I will stick with the Bible, which is very clear, that after David was told that his son had died, he rejoiced, because he was going to join him after he died, and that is not in hell!

Sorry, where does it say he rejoiced?

 

[Dave G]

I will stick with the Bible, which is very clear, that after David was told that his son had died, he rejoiced, because he was going to join him after he died, and that is not in hell!

" But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me." ( 2 Samuel 12:23 ).

This is all it says.
To me, anything past that is conjecture, and really should not be used to build any doctrines.

 

[Reformed1689]

you do NOT understand because of you theology! Only AFTER a person SINS, they are SINNERS. The verse in Isaiah and Romans show that young children of a certain age, are NOT guilty. this is the Bible. I am not going to argue any more on this, because you like Reformed1689, are bound by your theology!

No, we are bound by the TEXT of Scripture. And it does NOT in any way say they have not sinned.

 

[SavedByGrace]

No it doesn't. Not knowing if something is sin doesn't mean you have not sinned. So YES, you DO have to deal with Romans 3:23 or say the Bible contradicts itself. Does the Bible contradict itself? No. Of course not. Nor does it say that children have not sinned. You are reading that into the text. Though, I can't understand how you read that into the text. It is nowhere to be found there.

as I have said before you have much to learn. You dismiss the Scriptures that are clear that children are NOT sinners at conception, or after birth at a young age. and you will keep on kicking aganist the Word of God, by producing your verse from Romans!

 

[SavedByGrace]

" But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me." ( 2 Samuel 12:23 ).

This is all it says.
To me, anything past that is conjecture, and really should not be used to build any doctrines.

what does I SHALL GO TO HIM mean? after the child was dead??? Stop trying to force the Bible to fit your theology!