Featured Acts 17 and Total Inability

Whatever "Calvinists" do is of no concern to me, George...
I won't shrink from His sovereignty.
He is King and I am not.
I'm nothing more than a worthless subject that He decided to drag out of my own disaster by His own grace.

Respectfully, I think that you'll find that I'm not going to do everything that the "Calvinists" do or believe everything that the followers of John Calvin believed and taught, just because he believed and taught it.

For example, I have no problem admitting to "double predestination", also known as "sovereign reprobation".
I have no trouble asking someone to prove, by Scripture, that infants "get a free pass" just because they are infants and that they somehow don't fall under the declarations of Romans 3:10-11, Romans 3:23, Ecclesiastes 7:20, John 3:3, John 3:18 and many others.

I have no trouble stating that Jesus Christ died for the sins of His sheep ( the "world" as defined by Revelation 5:9, Revelation 7:9, Romans 9:24, 1 Corinthians 1:24 and many others ), and that His Father sent Him to die for them and them alone...contrary to what John Calvin taught in his "Institutes".
I have no trouble disagreeing with "a-millennialism" because I don't see it taught anywhere in His word, nor do I see anything other than "believer's baptism" taught in the Scriptures.

I also have no trouble defending the fact that God can do as He wishes, can allow something on one hand and cause something on another...
and be perfectly just and righteous no matter what He does;

And you or I don't have a single thing ( that would be worth His hearing ) to say about it.

 

" The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the Lord will abhor the bloody and deceitful man." ( Psalms 5:5-6 ).

Who are the unrighteous, SBG?
Those who are not in Christ.

Who does the will of God?
Those whom God has made new creatures in Christ.
Who works iniquity in their hearts?
Those whom the Lord has not made new creatures in Christ.

Based on Him having the right to love and to hate, to have mercy and compassion on one and not another ( Romans 9:14-18, Exodus 33:19 ), and the righteous being so because of their being redeemed by the blood of the Lamb and because of His grace and mercy alone...
Then the thin small line between God saving someone and God damning another to the fires of eternal torment... is what?

His love for them.

The example is "Jacob have a loved and Esau have I hated".

 

@atpollard

On the first 2 quotes I think its clear where we do and do not agree.

Voila! Perhaps I phrased it poorly earlier. 2 Wills seems to me an attempt to overcome these passages which make it tough for many, but not all, to accept TULIP.
i.e. Luke 2
9And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. 10And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. 11For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, which is Christ the Lord.

If we use the tulip shaped key to interpret this though...
All means some and it is actually a terrible decree.

 

why omit Psalm 106:40? this IS about God's own people, His ELECT!

"Therefore the LORD's anger burned against His people, and He abhorred His own inheritance."

the Hebrew word here is much stronger than that used in Malachi 1:3. here it means "to detest, abominate, despised, disgusted". This verse in Psalms renders the use of Malachi and Romans, in the "reformed" way, a non starter.

 

Do you not see that David is speaking there of His chosen, physical nation of Israel, SBG?
Those who had agreed to follow His commands when Moses gave them to those whom the Lord had delivered from Egypt ( Deuteronomy 29:2-29, Deuteronomy 30:1-20 )?

I agree in the highlighted.

 

I disagree.
It in no way renders what the Lord says about His spiritual people and how and why they are saved , a "non-starter".

His physical people, the covenant nation of Israel, showed the evidence that they were not all of God ( born again ) by disobeying him time and again throughout their long history.
They showed that they were, by and large, not saved by their lack of faith.
If they would have been "of God" according to John 8:43-47, they would have believed Him and His words, obeyed Him and followed His commandments.


The Lord Jesus told them this in no uncertain terms and on many occasions, for example in John 8:39.
The fact that they, as a group, followed their corrupt hearts in disobedience, tells me that for the most part, the Lord never made them alive, in the spiritual sense.

Therefore, God's purpose according to election ( Romans 11:1-6 ) stands...
He is saving a remnant out of the nation of Israel just as He is saving a remnant out of every tongue, tribe and nation.
Otherwise we would all be as Sodom and Gomorrah.

Stated as clearly as possible:

Those whom the Lord loves ( and who love Him ), He saves.
Those whom the Lord Jesus came to die for ( Isaiah 53:8, Matthew 1:21, John 10:11 ), were given to Him by His Father ( John 6:37-40 ) to save ( John 17:2 ).
Those whom the Lord hates ( and who hate Him as He is revealed in His word ), He casts into the Lake of Fire for their refusal to repent of their sins and their hatred of Him and His ways.
He does not send to eternal torment anyone that He loves and who genuinely love and want to obey Him out of a sincere desire to please Him...
Not to get out of going to Hell, but because they really care that they have offended their Best Friend.

That is the reality of it.

 

I'm sorry @SBG, but it seems to me that you're content in the belief that salvation is a result of one's actions...
and not that one's actions towards the Lord are the result of Him saving them.

In other words, you're conditioning salvation on belief, and not belief on salvation...
Being one of Christ's sheep because of belief, and not belief because of a person being ( or not being ) one of His sheep ( John 10:26-29 ):

" But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father’s hand."

Side note:
He will never tell His sheep, whom He knows and who follow Him, that He never knew ( Matthew 7:21-23 ) them.

God's word teaches that a person follows the Lord because they are a new creature in Christ...
That he loved them even when they were dead in their trespasses and sins ( Ephesians 2:1-7 ).
They don't go from being spiritually dead to spiritually alive by "making a decision" to follow Him.
The Lord makes spiritually dead people alive, and they then decide to follow Him.

Salvation by grace through faith...
Not "of works", lest any man should boast.
Life from the dead, my friend.

Otherwise we stay in our sins, the deadness of our hearts and the vanity of our darkened minds and we never really and truly seek Him, much less His ways.
Romans 3:10-18 and Ephesians 4:17-19 continues on and on and only He can break that cycle...

So, if you love and trust in Him, it's because He first loved you ( 1 John 4:19 ) and made you a new creature in Christ.
That is what it is to be saved by grace.

This is my final reply in this thread.


I wish you and all who read this God's blessings,
and that your studies in His word may bear much fruit.

 

tuP is as far I can go on TULIP. And as before stand by what I stated in earlier posts.

On the subject of the t. We are fallen spiritually. But we can hear the Word physically. With the affirmation of the Holy Spirit we can accept or reject. John 3:14-21, Romans 10:8-11, Genesis 6:3

As for the u. God elects some for special service. i.e John the Baptist who leapt in his mothers womb. Luke 1:41
Paul on the road to Damascus. Acts 22:6-11 and the OT patriarchs, prophets, judges and kings.

And P, Philippians 1:6, Hebrews 6:1-10 and others.

If you assume I have not searched the Word of God then you are in error. 50+ years.
I was raised in the fear and admonition of the Lord. I learned that rituals will not save.
Through the preaching of God's quick and powerful word the Holy Spirit convicted me of sin.
I humbly repented of my sin and asked the Lord Jesus to save me.
By His Grace He became my Shepherd that night many years ago.
I will follow Jesus all the days of life for He alone is Lord and He alone has the Words of Life.
Colossians 2:1-15

But I will always search the treasure house of His Word.
And it is a joy to search with fellow believers.

 

The kicker is those in Acts 17 who REJECT Paul.

Paul is telling a bunch of PAGANS who REJECT JESUS, that they are part of those people called to repent, that they are children of God quoting the pagan poem of Zeus.

The issue again Calvinist understanding that God's means of doing anything are limited.

Paul here preaching the gospel could be God's drawing if he wants it to be. Even putting them in circumstance of blindly seeking.


Is it a SIN that they REJECT JESUS? Careful how you answer this.

 

May I ask you this?
If the good tidings of great joy is to every single human being both past, present and future, then why is there any judgment to come since all people are saved?
If all means all people are saved and that means there is good tidings of great joy for all people, then there is no judgment for any and no hell for any. This is the conclusion that you are demanding.
Explain away your own demands. Do you declare that the human will is so vastly powerful that humans overpower the good tidings of great joy and cast down God's work of redemption in their lives by rejecting what God has done and not only demanding that God unsave them, but go farther to overpower God and destroy God's work entirely?
It must be that humans are far more powerful and superior to God that they can, by their own willpower, cast down the purpose of God.
Otherwise, you must concede that the good tidings of great joy which shall be to all people means that not just the Jews would receive this gracious redemption, but all people groups would hear the gospel and from all people groups there would be some who are redeemed. This fits with Revelation where John reports that there were people in heaven from every nation, tribe and tongue.
However, your demands make you a universalist in declaration. According to you, all people must be saved by God, but perhaps they can unsave themselves by their free will and thus destroy God's salvation for them.

I suggest you have entirely misunderstood the passage you quote.

 

I suggest that you are not reading my earlier posts.
I thought it was addressed but I will attempt again.

Indeed He is the Word. John 1:14
If we repent! 1 John 1:9-10
Its not that that mankind is incapable of repentance but that we choose not to.
And with enough resistance we have this end result. A reprobate mind.
Romans 1
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

I am not demanding anything. I am reading God's word and He alone can demand.
As to your charge of Universalist I plead not guilty!

Is this universalism?
John 1
29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
And of course I will not let go of John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

And lets look at Isaiah 53
Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?

2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

I see this meaning more than some.

I apologize for the long post but trying to be thorough.

 

You toss in a "we must cooperate with God or he cannot save us" in the comments above. I bolded it for you and placed it in italics.

You state that God saves if we cooperate "If we repent."
Thus, you demand a work by the human, which triggers God to save. In Romans Paul says this is not grace at all.

Romans 11:5-6
So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

Note, we are chosen by grace. We are not chosen by repentance which moves God to be gracious. We are chosen by grace, which moves us to repentance. You have it flipped around and backwards.

 

I cannot and will not because of the entirety of God's word!

God is sovereign because He is all powerful.
Calvin flips this.

 

Exactly!
Calvin flips the statement.
He is all powerful because He is sovereign.

Allowing us, we, all, any, world and whosoever to choose is not giving over control.
Its long suffering.

Old invitation hymn says it well.
Come every soul by sin oppressed there is mercy with the Lord and He will surely give you rest by trusting in His Word!

Of course invitations are losing popularity.

 

God does not desire for you to ever sin again. Lets see if that comes to pass.

Or does he yield to control of men?