Words Hard to Translate

[Bassoonery]

Another tough word is baptism. The noun is baptisma (βάπτισμα), and the verb is baptizo (βαπτίζω). As all good Baptists know, the normal, literal meaning is immersion/immerse. However, it was transliterated into English in the early English versions. (No need to go into all that history.) William Carey was known for translating it into the 46 languages he worked in as "immersion/immerse."

Would you follow suit, translating with a word for immersion, or would you fudge it and transliterate? The first strategy has the advantage of being correct , but the second has the advantage of appealing to a wide range of denominations.

In China, the earliest translations ran into this problems. Presbyterian Robert Morrison (1782-1834) used the character xi (洗), meaning “wash.” This practice has been followed to the present day in the Chinese Union Version (洗) and the Japanese Shinkyoudo Version (洗礼), as well as in other versions. He claimed that his translation was the first Chinese Bible. However, that was disputed.

The other first Chinese Bible was translated by Joshua Marshman (1768-1837), an English Baptist missionary to India who got a burden for China. He worked with Carey, so his translation used used the Chinese words zhan (蘸) and cui (淬), both meaning “to dip,” as well as both these characters in a compound, zhancui (蘸淬).

It must be noted that these men had an incredibly difficult task to do, since Chinese were forbidden on pain of death to teach their language to Gweilo (foreign devils). Their translations did not last, being faulty in various ways, but they got the ball rolling.

In Japan, the first complete Japanese NT was done by Nathan Brown, a former colleague of Carey, and he used a word for "immerse." For our part, in our Japanese NT we eschewed the typical 洗礼 (senrei), or "washing ceremony," and went with the Baptist word, 浸礼 (shinrei), or "immersion ceremony." I did this after asking the denizens of this very forum years ago what we should do. They unanimously advised "immersion" as I recall. Then my son said he would never speak to me again if I didn't use "immerse." Well, not really, but he did stand for "immerse."

I had no idea our heroes in India had such an impact on colleagues in China and Japan. Very glad to know this. Our churches and seminaries here have close connections to Serampore College.

The Bible translation here was a collaborative effort between Welsh Calvinist Methodists (now known as Presbyterians) and English Baptists (with some Congregational background). As you suggest then, it’s no surprise that immersion is not specified but the word “baptism” is borrowed directly. Although it loses the meaning so dear to Baptist hearts, one could alternatively argue that the presence of the word “baptise” in the Bible lends a good deal of credibility to churches or missionaries calling themselves “Baptist”! After all, I’ve never heard of an “Immersion” denomination or church…

 

[John of Japan]

I had no idea our heroes in India had such an impact on colleagues in China and Japan. Very glad to know this. Our churches and seminaries here have close connections to Serampore College.

I've seen their website. Still an impressive school after all these years!

The Bible translation here was a collaborative effort between Welsh Calvinist Methodists (now known as Presbyterians) and English Baptists (with some Congregational background). As you suggest then, it’s no surprise that immersion is not specified but the word “baptism” is borrowed directly. Although it loses the meaning so dear to Baptist hearts, one could alternatively argue that the presence of the word “baptise” in the Bible lends a good deal of credibility to churches or missionaries calling themselves “Baptist”! After all, I’ve never heard of an “Immersion” denomination or church…

Nathan Brown, mentioned above as the first translator of the NT into Japanese, was an American, so even in the heyday of Carey, he was much admired in America. The first American foreign missionary was Adoniram Judson, who has a fascinating story. In case you've never heard his story, he was a congregationalist headed for India, and on the ship over he thought he should study baptism to be able to correct Carey. However, instead he made himself into a Baptist, and was baptized when he reached India. He was not allowed to say in India, however, and ended up being the first missionary to Burma, where he translated the Bible and planted many churches. We have a student in our college from that Baptist tradition in Myanmar.

Brown was on the committee for the first Japanese Bible translation as its Greek expert, but parted company with them amicably when the Presbyterian on the committee would not agree to translate with "immerse." His own NT, finished before theirs, had several reprints and a revision, but did not last, no doubt because mainly of his "Immersion" rendering appealing mainly just to Baptists. Also, he translated into colloquial Japanese, which was simply not done until after WW2. All written Japanese documents in those days were in classical Japanese.

 

[John of Japan]

Thanks for this. The Mizo is simply "Oh human". I tried but couldn't find other suitable examples.

True, but even in England the terms are no longer used except in the service and sales industries. I was comfortable using Sir and Madam as a teenager in my first part-time jobs. When I first came here as a short-term volunteer, my Mizo roommate was horrified when a senior member of the mission agency visited and I addressed him by his first name! We Brits quietly envy your Southern US "ma'ams" as a kind of old-school politeness we have lost, but I think even there the connotations are no longer suitable for use in the Bible translations!

Wow, I didn't know that. Kind of sad, really. People all over are less polite, I suppose. In Japan, young people are eschewing the polite speech--until they try to get a job, that is, and then they are cut down to size. We had a dear elderly lady in our church who taught English in the high schools, and one day two boys talked to her as if she were the inferior and they were above her in society. She was devastated!

 

[John of Japan]

Consider the word "spirit." This can be truly hard to translate! You have several usages to worry about: the "Holy Spirit," simply the "Spirit" (capital S for the Person), the lower case "spirit" for the human spirit, evil spirits, and finally the word as influence. (See 1 John 4:6, "the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.")

Consider just the basic word, πνεῦμα? “A translation for the ‘Holy Spirit’ used for some time in one Sudanic language meant only ‘clean breath,’ and that meant nothing, for whoever saw a ‘clean breath’?” (Eugene Nida, God’s Word in Man’s Language (New York: Harper and Brothers, 1952, p. 44).

“Translators usually have as much difficulty with the word for ‘spirit’ as with any other in the language. To a considerable extent this is due to the fact that the Greek pneuma and the English spirit have such very wide areas of meaning.” (Ibid., 210). “If one employs the aboriginal word for spirit, the translation may imply that Jesus possessed a familiar spirit" (Ibid., 213). A "familiar spirit" is a demon companion.

If the language has a high incidence of respect language, care must be taken to see that the Holy Spirit is mentioned with respect. In Japanese this means using 御霊 (Mitama, “honorable Spirit”) instead of just 霊 (rei, “spirit”), in which the first character is an honorific prefix.

 

[Yeshua1]

Consider the word "spirit." This can be truly hard to translate! You have several usages to worry about: the "Holy Spirit," simply the "Spirit" (capital S for the Person), the lower case "spirit" for the human spirit, evil spirits, and finally the word as influence. (See 1 John 4:6, "the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.")

Consider just the basic word, πνεῦμα? “A translation for the ‘Holy Spirit’ used for some time in one Sudanic language meant only ‘clean breath,’ and that meant nothing, for whoever saw a ‘clean breath’?” (Eugene Nida, God’s Word in Man’s Language (New York: Harper and Brothers, 1952, p. 44).

“Translators usually have as much difficulty with the word for ‘spirit’ as with any other in the language. To a considerable extent this is due to the fact that the Greek pneuma and the English spirit have such very wide areas of meaning.” (Ibid., 210). “If one employs the aboriginal word for spirit, the translation may imply that Jesus possessed a familiar spirit" (Ibid., 213). A "familiar spirit" is a demon companion.

If the language has a high incidence of respect language, care must be taken to see that the Holy Spirit is mentioned with respect. In Japanese this means using 御霊 (Mitama, “honorable Spirit”) instead of just 霊 (rei, “spirit”), in which the first character is an honorific prefix.

Even hard at times into English translation to see if meant God Spirit or spirit as in that of a man?

 

[Bassoonery]

Consider the word "spirit." This can be truly hard to translate! You have several usages to worry about: the "Holy Spirit," simply the "Spirit" (capital S for the Person), the lower case "spirit" for the human spirit, evil spirits, and finally the word as influence. (See 1 John 4:6, "the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.")

Consider just the basic word, πνεῦμα? “A translation for the ‘Holy Spirit’ used for some time in one Sudanic language meant only ‘clean breath,’ and that meant nothing, for whoever saw a ‘clean breath’?” (Eugene Nida, God’s Word in Man’s Language (New York: Harper and Brothers, 1952, p. 44).

“Translators usually have as much difficulty with the word for ‘spirit’ as with any other in the language. To a considerable extent this is due to the fact that the Greek pneuma and the English spirit have such very wide areas of meaning.” (Ibid., 210). “If one employs the aboriginal word for spirit, the translation may imply that Jesus possessed a familiar spirit" (Ibid., 213). A "familiar spirit" is a demon companion.

If the language has a high incidence of respect language, care must be taken to see that the Holy Spirit is mentioned with respect. In Japanese this means using 御霊 (Mitama, “honorable Spirit”) instead of just 霊 (rei, “spirit”), in which the first character is an honorific prefix.

I can understand the “clean breath” idea – it works almost the same in Mizo. Clean and holy are pretty much synonymous. When I first came, I thought bottles were labelled as “holy water”, but it was just clean (purified) water. Maybe “holy” can be another one of your difficult words…?

As for the word for Spirit, Mizo culture already had a rich vocabulary. The basic word for a man’s spirit/soul, conceived as a “shadowy double”, is thla. The same word is used for a portrait/photo (consider the English “take your likeness”), and also for an evening shadow. But that’s only the beginning: The dictionary compiled by the missionaries goes on to give about 3 double pages of thla- words, the majority of which are connected to matters of the spirit. It makes for pretty dark reading!

Tucked away is the word thla-rau, defined as a spirit, soul, ghost or spirit of a dead person. Somehow, this ended up being the word of choice for the Holy Spirit: Thlarau Thianghlim. If the translators were influenced by the KJV, perhaps they went for a direct translation of Ghost? Reading the dictionary, it seems a very odd choice to me but I’m sure it was selected after a great deal of deliberation with the local Christians who were included on the translation teams. We can also note that thlarau contains no connotations of the Greek breath/wind, but neither does the English.

The uncapitalised thlarau is used much as you have mentioned in the English (including 1 John 4:6), with a significant exception that any reference to evil spirits/demons uses the traditional term for specifically evil, non-human spirits, ramhuai. Perhaps this clear distinction helped to avoid negative associations with thlarau. A different word is also used when the disciples thought Jesus was a ghost, so potential confusion is avoided.

Another exception is the Beatitudes (poor in spirit) where rilru is used, referring to the mind/heart.

 

[OnlyaSinner]

Wow, I didn't know that. Kind of sad, really. People all over are less polite, I suppose. In Japan, young people are eschewing the polite speech--until they try to get a job, that is, and then they are cut down to size. We had a dear elderly lady in our church who taught English in the high schools, and one day two boys talked to her as if she were the inferior and they were above her in society. She was devastated!

Several years back when my (unsaved) son was teaching English to junior-high-agers in Gifu Prefecture, he said there would always be 2 or 3 students, nearly always boys, who offered no interest in the class or respect to Sensei. Instead, they acted like too many Americans at 12-13 years.

 

[John of Japan]

I can understand the “clean breath” idea – it works almost the same in Mizo. Clean and holy are pretty much synonymous. When I first came, I thought bottles were labelled as “holy water”, but it was just clean (purified) water. Maybe “holy” can be another one of your difficult words…?

As for the word for Spirit, Mizo culture already had a rich vocabulary. The basic word for a man’s spirit/soul, conceived as a “shadowy double”, is thla. The same word is used for a portrait/photo (consider the English “take your likeness”), and also for an evening shadow. But that’s only the beginning: The dictionary compiled by the missionaries goes on to give about 3 double pages of thla- words, the majority of which are connected to matters of the spirit. It makes for pretty dark reading!

Tucked away is the word thla-rau, defined as a spirit, soul, ghost or spirit of a dead person. Somehow, this ended up being the word of choice for the Holy Spirit: Thlarau Thianghlim. If the translators were influenced by the KJV, perhaps they went for a direct translation of Ghost? Reading the dictionary, it seems a very odd choice to me but I’m sure it was selected after a great deal of deliberation with the local Christians who were included on the translation teams. We can also note that thlarau contains no connotations of the Greek breath/wind, but neither does the English.

The uncapitalised thlarau is used much as you have mentioned in the English (including 1 John 4:6), with a significant exception that any reference to evil spirits/demons uses the traditional term for specifically evil, non-human spirits, ramhuai. Perhaps this clear distinction helped to avoid negative associations with thlarau. A different word is also used when the disciples thought Jesus was a ghost, so potential confusion is avoided.

Another exception is the Beatitudes (poor in spirit) where rilru is used, referring to the mind/heart.

Thank you! Very informative about the difficulties of translating this word.

Interestingly enough, both the Hebrew and Greek words for "spirit" have multiple meanings like you have described. The BDB lexicon has for the Hebrew word ruach (רוּח), "wind, breath, mind, spirit." Also, the Greek word pneuma (πνεῦμα) is translated as spirit, wind, and breath.

 

[John of Japan]

The word for repentance, metanoia (μετάνοια), can be difficult to translate. This is a definite case where theology influences translation. The Friberg defines it this way: "strictly later knowledge, subsequent correction; (1) religiously and morally, as a change of mind leading to change of behavior repentance, conversion, turning about (MT 3.8; 2C 7.10); (2) as a change of opinion in respect to one's acts regret, remorse (a popular Greek usage not found in the NT)" (Timothy Friberg, Barbara Friberg, and Neva Mille, Analytical Lexicon of the Greek New Testament, 260).

So, the base or core meaning is “religiously and morally, as a change of mind leading to change of behavior.” Actually, when you think about it, a change in one’s fundamental way of thinking will always produce a change in action. Therefore, the translator should be looking for a word depicting a serious change of mind, a change in one’s fundamental thinking.

Mistaken renderings would include anything that indicate emotional responses to the Gospel, such as sorrowing. According to 2 Cor. 7:10, "For godly sorrow [metanoia] worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death." This usage makes it obvious that sorrow is not a part of repentance, but a result of it.

 

[John of Japan]

Several years back when my (unsaved) son was teaching English to junior-high-agers in Gifu Prefecture, he said there would always be 2 or 3 students, nearly always boys, who offered no interest in the class or respect to Sensei. Instead, they acted like too many Americans at 12-13 years.

That's typical of Japanese teens nowadays. However, things change when they get out of high school or college and have to apply for a job. The companies whip then into polite shape, because if you want to do business in Japan you absolutely must be polite. I've heard that companies put their new employees through a type of boot camp to teach to be polite.

 

[OnlyaSinner]

That's typical of Japanese teens nowadays. However, things change when they get out of high school or college and have to apply for a job. The companies whip then into polite shape, because if you want to do business in Japan you absolutely must be polite. I've heard that companies put their new employees through a type of boot camp to teach to be polite.

Our son earned a Masters degree online 4-5 years ago, which qualified him to teach at the college level (in Nagoya). He finds that far preferable - more challenging but in a good way, and less frustrating. Years ago he explained to us the Japanese honorifics, how one would use a certain word when speaking to an inferior, a different word to a peer and yet a third way to a superior.

 

[Van]

The word for repentance, metanoia (μετάνοια), can be difficult to translate. This is a definite case where theology influences translation. The Friberg defines it this way: "strictly later knowledge, subsequent correction; (1) religiously and morally, as a change of mind leading to change of behavior repentance, conversion, turning about (MT 3.8; 2C 7.10); (2) as a change of opinion in respect to one's acts regret, remorse (a popular Greek usage not found in the NT)" (Timothy Friberg, Barbara Friberg, and Neva Mille, Analytical Lexicon of the Greek New Testament, 260).

So, the base or core meaning is “religiously and morally, as a change of mind leading to change of behavior.” Actually, when you think about it, a change in one’s fundamental way of thinking will always produce a change in action. Therefore, the translator should be looking for a word depicting a serious change of mind, a change in one’s fundamental thinking.

Mistaken renderings would include anything that indicate emotional responses to the Gospel, such as sorrowing. According to 2 Cor. 7:10, "For godly sorrow [metanoia] worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death." This usage makes it obvious that sorrow is not a part of repentance, but a result of it.

Yes, "metanoia" (translated as repentance) is difficult to translated because the meaning of "repent" is just as obscure as "metanoia." As used in the NT, clearly the "a change in one's fundamental thinking" is spot on. We turn from within, and stop adhering to an errant viewpoint, and embrace (believe) in God's viewpoint.

We find in scripture "repent and believe" (Mark 1:15) thus repent is used to mean turn from prior beliefs, and "repent and return" (Acts of the Apostles 3:19) thus again using the narrow meaning of turning from prior beliefs. But whether stated or implied, the idea is to forsake our old way and embrace God's way with deep commitment (deeply rooted belief). (Acts of the Apostles 26:20)

 

[John of Japan]

Our son earned a Masters degree online 4-5 years ago, which qualified him to teach at the college level (in Nagoya). He finds that far preferable - more challenging but in a good way, and less frustrating. Years ago he explained to us the Japanese honorifics, how one would use a certain word when speaking to an inferior, a different word to a peer and yet a third way to a superior.

I count five levels of honorifics in Japanese, the three you mentioned, then two more above that: talking to someone over a superior (the company owner, for example), and talking to the emperor (something I never did, thank the Lord!). So, the verb for "is":
1. da だ
2. desu です
3. de gozaimasu　でございます
4. de irrasshaimasu でいらっしゃいます
5. Who knows! 　僕は知らない！

 

[John of Japan]

Varaious theological terms are difficult to translate. For example, "adoption" (huiothesia, ὑιοθεσία occurs in five places in the NT:
Ro 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Ro 8:23 And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.
Ro 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom [pertaineth] the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service [of God], and the promises; {covenants: or, testaments}
Ga 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

The problem is that many societies (and therefore many languages) do not have the concept of adoption. In Japanese society it is very rare, and Japanese laws are ambiguous about it. I know of one lawsuit where a Japanese father refused to recognize the baby he had with an unmarried Filipino woman--allowed under Japanese law. So the baby was stateless. A missionary couple tried to adopt the baby, and it went to the Japanese supreme court before they got justice.

The Japanese word is a four character, complicated word. The average Japanese does not recognize it. You can check it out here: Jisho.org: Japanese Dictionary

What we used in our Japanese translation was youshi (養子), which is used in special cases when a man without a son for an heir legally adopts his son-in-law, who then changes his name so the lineage does not die.

 

[OnlyaSinner]

I count five levels of honorifics in Japanese, the three you mentioned, then two more above that: talking to someone over a superior (the company owner, for example), and talking to the emperor (something I never did, thank the Lord!). So, the verb for "is":
1. da だ
2. desu です
3. de gozaimasu　でございます
4. de irrasshaimasu でいらっしゃいます
5. Who knows! 　僕は知らない！

I highly doubt that my son even talked with the college president (#4). As for #5, probably not many gaijin lower than presidents/prime ministers would ever need to know.

 

[John of Japan]

"Justify" (dikaioo, δικαιόω) is another tough one. I imagine (don't know for sure) that many tribal societies which do not have a legal system would have trouble with this one. Eugene Nida wrote, "The Zacapoaxtla Aztecs speak of it as 'heart-straightening.' The Conobs say that it means 'having a straight soul.' The Popolucas in the state of Veracruz, Mexico, say that this means 'walking straight'" (God's Word in Man's Language, p. 145).

So, quite often a whole phrase is needed to say this one word. This is true in Japanese, which uses gi to mitomerareru (義と認められる), meaning "to be recognized as righteous." Now, the Chinese character for "righteous" (義) is quite interesting. It is made up of the following radicals: sheep (羊), hand (手), and ax (斧). These 2nd & 3rd characters make up together "I," so that righteousness in Chinese is "a sheep above me." I have no doubt that this comes from the original monotheistic religion of China, which had sheep sacrifices to the supreme God, Shang Di (上帝, "upper emperor").

 

[Yeshua1]

"Justify" (dikaioo, δικαιόω) is another tough one. I imagine (don't know for sure) that many tribal societies which do not have a legal system would have trouble with this one. Eugene Nida wrote, "The Zacapoaxtla Aztecs speak of it as 'heart-straightening.' The Conobs say that it means 'having a straight soul.' The Popolucas in the state of Veracruz, Mexico, say that this means 'walking straight'" (God's Word in Man's Language, p. 145).

So, quite often a whole phrase is needed to say this one word. This is true in Japanese, which uses gi to mitomerareru (義と認められる), meaning "to be recognized as righteous." Now, the Chinese character for "righteous" (義) is quite interesting. It is made up of the following radicals: sheep (羊), hand (手), and ax (斧). These 2nd & 3rd characters make up together "I," so that righteousness in Chinese is "a sheep above me." I have no doubt that this comes from the original monotheistic religion of China, which had sheep sacrifices to the supreme God, Shang Di (上帝, "upper emperor").

How about the term born again, or reborn from above?

 

[Van]

Varaious theological terms are difficult to translate. For example, "adoption" (huiothesia, ὑιοθεσία occurs in five places in the NT:
Ro 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Ro 8:23 And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.
Ro 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom [pertaineth] the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service [of God], and the promises; {covenants: or, testaments}
Ga 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

The problem is that many societies (and therefore many languages) do not have the concept of adoption. In Japanese society it is very rare, and Japanese laws are ambiguous about it. I know of one lawsuit where a Japanese father refused to recognize the baby he had with an unmarried Filipino woman--allowed under Japanese law. So the baby was stateless. A missionary couple tried to adopt the baby, and it went to the Japanese supreme court before they got justice.

The Japanese word is a four character, complicated word. The average Japanese does not recognize it. You can check it out here: Jisho.org: Japanese Dictionary

What we used in our Japanese translation was youshi (養子), which is used in special cases when a man without a son for an heir legally adopts his son-in-law, who then changes his name so the lineage does not die.

Adoption is a mistranslation of the concept of awarding the full rights of adulthood upon reaching the age of maturity. Japan has a "coming of age" holiday, and therefore the concept is handled by the language.

 

[Yeshua1]

Adoption is a mistranslation of the concept of awarding the full rights of adulthood upon reaching the age of maturity. Japan has a "coming of age" holiday, and therefore the concept is handled by the language.

We have already been adopted by the Father, correct?

 

[Van]

We have already been adopted by the Father, correct?

Please cite the verse or verses that say we have been, past tense, "adopted." We are predestined to our future adoption at Christ's second coming.

Adoption refers to the redemption of our bodies at Christ's second coming. Efforts to claim it means the same as being born anew in Christ are agenda driven twaddle. It is a mistake to read the English word meaning back into the Greek.