• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

What is Catholicism?

Status
Not open for further replies.
utilyan

utilyan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
AustinC said:
Is this no for all the questions?
Click to expand...

"IF SO" makes the other questions conditional on saying YES, "at that time" connects the 3rd to 2nd question. so I did not have to answer them.

I think I can angle a good answer to confront the obsession with salvation.

No one can secure salvation, ever, ALL of it is dependent on Christ.

The idea WE secure it is so "MAN-CENTERED"
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Does the Antichrist Pope still sit in the Temple of Christendom? How many of his doctrines do you believe?
 
A

AustinC

Well-Known Member
utilyan said:
"IF SO" makes the other questions conditional on saying YES, "at that time" connects the 3rd to 2nd question. so I did not have to answer them.

I think I can angle a good answer to confront the obsession with salvation.

No one can secure salvation, ever, ALL of it is dependent on Christ.

The idea WE secure it is so "MAN-CENTERED"
Click to expand...
What is dependent on Christ?

Must we do good works which are dependent on Christ counting them as justification for our bad works?
 
Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
atpollard said:
Yeah, I had a knock down, drag out, no holds barred “discussion” with the members of one particular Church of Christ congregation at a social event. They were ganging up on some freshly converted Christian “baby in Christ” and telling him that his previous “baptism” was invalid and he was not really saved because you needed to be baptized by someone with authority traced back to Christ himself (like their Bishop).

I started pointing out all of the people and verses in the Bible where that was not the case. Then they kept tag teaming off to older and older members. (I later learned that I started discussing with members, then debated with the elders, and finally ended up arguing with their pastor).

It really pisses me off when people pick on new Christians with bad theology. Being a new Christian and trying to figure everything out is hard enough, without people throwing you anchors.
Click to expand...
My father best friend died out in his garage from a heart attack, and while at their CoC service for him, the family were so excited that he was saved and on his way to heaven, but when asked based hope upon what, replied was water baptized just before died!
 
Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
utilyan said:
Better. They can Trust God. Not a certificate of salvation or even obsess over salvation.

In all ETERNITY it is in God's hands, if he were evil sure enough he snap his finger and POOF your in hell or don't exists, fill in the blank. We haven't existed even 5 minutes into eternity.

My survival or "DIVINE ETERNAL SURVIVAL" is not the priority, obsessing over salvation only puts a wedge between God our Father who we ought to trust through and through.

The "assurance" IS JESUS CHRIST. Not a certificate, not a divine oil stick pulled out of the nose that says "save" or "elect".

I would not want any sort of "leverage" over God or people. This whole "danger" of existence the ignorance and fear is part of the problem in the first place.

I think if we met Jesus in person there is a caliber of Goodness so good, so right, that is witnessed that the real Armageddon is the battle between your sigh of relief and joyous laughter.

Its got to hit you down to the bones God has it all covered and cares A LOT more about you then YOU care about you.
Click to expand...
IF Catholics can be sure are saved and on way to heaven, why the need for sacraments and Purgatory still then?
 
utilyan

utilyan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Yeshua1 said:
IF Catholics can be sure are saved and on way to heaven, why the need for sacraments and Purgatory still then?
Click to expand...

We Love God. Purgatory is final cleansing, you can't go to zip to heaven at will God will glorify your body.
 
utilyan

utilyan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Salty said:
and the Scriptural reference for Purgatory?
Click to expand...

Revelations 21

27Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

Purgatory literally means cleansing, the final cleansing by whatever means even if you only got cleansed once, if that is the FINAL CLEANSING, that is purgatory.

A lot remains a mystery there is speculation that it involves time, speculation of a place, speculation of state of mind, speculation that God just washes you with a garden hose.


Nothing impure enters heaven, when did you finally achieve christ-like pureness, whatever that answer is, thats just purgatory.

Its nothing like hell but its been misrepresented exactly like hell where folks work off a debt. Jesus Christ does the cleansing.

Also a POST-DEATH purgatory is not REQUIRED. If you are already cleansed then you are already pure.
 
Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
utilyan said:
Revelations 21

27Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

Purgatory literally means cleansing, the final cleansing by whatever means even if you only got cleansed once, if that is the FINAL CLEANSING, that is purgatory.

A lot remains a mystery there is speculation that it involves time, speculation of a place, speculation of state of mind, speculation that God just washes you with a garden hose.


Nothing impure enters heaven, when did you finally achieve christ-like pureness, whatever that answer is, thats just purgatory.

Its nothing like hell but its been misrepresented exactly like hell where folks work off a debt. Jesus Christ does the cleansing.

Also a POST-DEATH purgatory is not REQUIRED. If you are already cleansed then you are already pure.
Click to expand...
Are we not already pure by being washed in the blood of the Lamb?
 
utilyan

utilyan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
AustinC said:
What is dependent on Christ?

Must we do good works which are dependent on Christ counting them as justification for our bad works?
Click to expand...
"What is dependent on Christ? "

Salvation depends on Christ.

"Must we do good works which are dependent on Christ counting them as justification for our bad works?"

No Bad works are never justified. Sins are bad through and through.

If you mean can Good works cancel out bad works, in a sense like 1 peter 4 8Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins.

All salvation is dependent on Jesus. A life of a thousand evil acts and one good act or thousand good acts and one evil act, has no bearing on salvation. There isn't a obligatory score or grade.

God is the only one who can see into your heart and makes the final call.

1 Corinthians 4

1This, then, is how you ought to regard us: as servants of Christ and as those entrusted with the mysteries God has revealed. 2Now it is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful. 3I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. 4My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. 5Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time each will receive their praise from God.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top