Will There Be a Future Literal 1000-Year Reign of Christ on the Earth?

[robycop3]

Explain the Isa.13 and Isa34 passages for us, we will see who has all the poppycock

Sure ! Chapter 13 prophesies both the coming great trib & the past punishment of Babylon by the medo-persian invasion.

Ch.34 is mostly about Edom, but it starts out with a description of the destruction of the world's armies, those that shall come against Jesus at the end of the millenium when Satan is freed from the abyss & incites rebellion against Him.

 

[kyredneck]

The coming literal, physical, geo-political Jewish millennial kingdom of Jesus Christ from the throne of David in Zion over planet earth is the #1 subject of the Bible.

Egad! How much more Judaized could you be? This is precisely the end result of Dispensationalism.

 

[canadyjd]

This is ridiculous, if you are asserting that the Israelites could not count to a thousand......

I never made that accusation. I said, in Hebrew culture, the number 1000 is often used symbolically of a number to large to count. I’m not making it up, scholars who spend their lives studying these issues recognized it.

Concerning the 144,000, what does it mean to be “sealed”?

peace to you

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

I never made that accusation. I said, in Hebrew culture, the number 1000 is often used symbolically of a number to large to count. I’m not making it up, scholars who spend their lives studying these issues recognized it.

Concerning the 144,000, what does it mean to be “sealed”?

peace to you

Did you read the rest of my post? I provided an explicit Scripture passage where Israelites counted several hundred thousand people down to the level of 10s.

There is no evidence that the number 1000 in Revelation 20 should be regarded as a number too large to count.

 

[Iconoclast]

Sure ! Chapter 13 prophesies both the coming great trib & the past punishment of Babylon by the medo-persian invasion.

Ch.34 is mostly about Edom, but it starts out with a description of the destruction of the world's armies, those that shall come against Jesus at the end of the millenium when Satan is freed from the abyss & incites rebellion against Him.

Thanks for your partial response.
If it speaks of the Historical nation of Babylon where do you see Jesus or any future judgment mentioned?
What about the language used of birth pangs of a woman in childbirth?
What happened in the language of verse ten?
What about the shaking of the "heavens" and the earth moving out of its place?
Now in isa34:4.
Did the heavens literally be rolled up like a scroll?
Take your time and give some details of this historic event?
How did time continue if it was rolled up and dissolved?
How if stars fall from heaven is earth still here?

 

[canadyjd]

Did you read the rest of my post? I provided an explicit Scripture passage where Israelites counted several hundred thousand people down to the level of 10s.

There is no evidence that the number 1000 in Revelation 20 should be regarded as a number too large to count.

I think it has already been established that we disagree.

What does being “sealed” mean in Rev 7 concerning the 144,000?

peace to you

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

I think it has already been established that we disagree.

What does being “sealed” mean in Rev 7 concerning the 144,000?

peace to you

Are you denying that the biblical revelation from Numbers 26:51 is true?

As I see it, what the being "sealed" means in Revelation 7 is irrelevant to discussing positions about the Millennium.

 

[canadyjd]

Are you denying that the biblical revelation from Numbers 26:51 is true?

Of course not. In that context, they counted more specifically.

That doesn’t change the truth that the number 1000 is often used in Hebrew culture as symbolizing a very large number too large to count.

Will you answer my question now?

What does being “sealed” in Rev 7 (concerning the 144,000) mean?

peace to you

 

[George Antonios]

How much more Judaized could you be?

So you slung a term. What is "Judaized"? How is stating that the millennial kingdom of Christ over the house of Jacob is the #1 subject of the Bible, which is provable statistically, an evil thing?

I don't teach salvation by the works of the law.
I don't teach that the church is Israel.
I'm not "Judaized".

As Middle-Eastern Arab born again Christian, I can smell Jew-envy and Jew-complex a mile away.
Esau's complex against Jacob still runs in Gentile veins.
It's an inferiority complex.

 

[Aaron]

In previous threads, various people who once used to be premillennial have argued for why premillennialism is not true. They now hold that there will not be a future literal 1000-year reign of Christ on the earth.

To support their current views, they assert that certain large sections of the Bible are symbolic and are not literally true. In this thread, I would like to consider further their claims about what passages are symbolic and what passages are not.

The "thousand years" starts with the binding of Satan. A spiritual event that cannot be witnessed with one's natural eyes.

The Gospel cannot go forth unless the "strong man" is first bound.

Matthew 12:28-29.

Luke 10:17-20
​

You will say this hasn't happened because the binding doesn't look like your carnal notions thereof. You think that men are little angels and will live pure, peaceful and perfect little lives if the devil cannot deceive the nations. You don't think they're already corrupt, deceivers of themselves, or driven by their lusts to idolize their bellies.

But, the fact that the Gospel goes forth is the signatory evidence of such binding. How can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

So the binding of Satan has occurred. I'm just taking Christ's words here, and I see it in the fact that the church is being built in the earth.

As the event that John said ushers in the "thousand years" has occurred, then the "thousand years" has been ushered in.

 

[George Antonios]

Sure ! Chapter 13 prophesies both the coming great trib & the past punishment of Babylon by the medo-persian invasion.

Ch.34 is mostly about Edom, but it starts out with a description of the destruction of the world's armies, those that shall come against Jesus at the end of the millenium when Satan is freed from the abyss & incites rebellion against Him.

I agree with @robycop3.
I think what throws off most people is the principle of double application, even though Hebrews 4:12 told us that the word of God is...sharper than any twoedged sword.
Just because you see a historical application, that doesn't mean the prophetic application is disannulled. On the contrary, the prophetic application is almost always the thrust of the passage.

 

[George Antonios]

The "thousand years" starts with the binding of Satan. A spiritual event that cannot be witnessed with one's natural eyes.

The Gospel cannot go forth unless the "strong man" is first bound.

Matthew 12:28-29.

Luke 10:17-20
​

You will say this hasn't happened because the binding doesn't look like your carnal notions thereof. You think that men are little angels and will live pure, peaceful and perfect little lives if the devil cannot deceive the nations. You don't think they're already corrupt, deceivers of themselves, or driven by their lusts to idolize their bellies.

But, the fact that the Gospel goes forth is the signatory evidence of such binding. How can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

So the binding of Satan has occurred. I'm just taking Christ's words here, and I see it in the fact that the church is being built in the earth.

As the event that John said ushers in the "thousand years" has occurred, then the "thousand years" has been ushered in.

Pitting the strong man statement of Christ as proof of amillennialism against an overwhelming host of verses that point to pre-millennialism is completely unbalanced.

 

[Aaron]

In previous threads, various people who once used to be premillennial have argued for why premillennialism is not true. They now hold that there will not be a future literal 1000-year reign of Christ on the earth.

To support their current views, they assert that certain large sections of the Bible are symbolic and are not literally true. In this thread, I would like to consider further their claims about what passages are symbolic and what passages are not.

Now if you would like to expound more upon what you think the purpose of the thousand years is, I'll be happy to tell you more about it.

 

[Aaron]

The coming literal, physical, geo-political Jewish millennial kingdom of Jesus Christ from the throne of David in Zion over planet earth is the #1 subject of the Bible. There are more verses about that almost any other 3 subjects combined.

No. It's about a bride for God's Son. It's about Redemption. It's about the Cross.

 

[Aaron]

Egad! How much more Judaized could you be? This is precisely the end result of Dispensationalism.

Indeed. The Idolatry is mind-blowing.

 

[robycop3]

Thanks for your partial response.
The "partial' response covered it all.
If it speaks of the Historical nation of Babylon where do you see Jesus or any future judgment mentioned?
The first part isn't about babylon.
What about the language used of birth pangs of a woman in childbirth?
Birth pains don't come all at once, usually. They start mildly with some time in between, becoming closer & more-intense as birth approaches.
What happened in the language of verse ten?
That will come later, immediately after the great trib.
What about the shaking of the "heavens" and the earth moving out of its place?
Coming later.
Now in isa34:4.
Did the heavens literally be rolled up like a scroll?
Take your time and give some details of this historic event?
How did time continue if it was rolled up and dissolved?
How if stars fall from heaven is earth still here?

All are future events.

 

[canadyjd]

....
As I see it, what the being "sealed" means in Revelation 7 is irrelevant to discussing positions about the Millennium.

It addresses the issue of symbolism in Rev. You stated the144,000 is not a symbolic number. We discussed that and disagree.

If you believe the 144,000 is literal, then you must also believe the rest of the passage is literal.

Is that correct? Or do you believe some of it is symbolic?

Edit to add:

Let me ask the question in another way. If you believe the 144,000 is literal, do you believe it is only made up of men?

The passage says the 144,000 are made up of the “Sons of Israel”. If literal, you must believe no Jewish women are part of this group that gets the “seal”, whatever the seal means.

Are Jewish women excluded?

peace to you

 

[Aaron]

Pitting the strong man statement of Christ as proof of amillennialism against an overwhelming host of verses that point to pre-millennialism is completely unbalanced.

I deleted my first response to this post, because I've changed my mind. It is evident you believe that the Cross was Plan B. (Maybe plan C*.) That had the Jews received their Messiah in the First Century, something like the Millennium would have begun at that time and probably with no end.

Let's talk about the "overwhelming host of verses" that dispels that inglorious little notion instead.

*Insincere gospel offer Part 2

 

[kyredneck]

So you slung a term. What is "Judaized"?

In a nutshell, carnal, shallow, by the letter and no deeper.

How is stating that the millennial kingdom of Christ over the house of Jacob is the #1 subject of the Bible, which is provable statistically, an evil thing?

Because it's NOT the main subject of the Bible, the 'house of Jacob' is the type, the foreshadow of the Church, 'The Israel Of God'.

"'Tis ordinarily said, that the Jews were a typical people, the whole divine economy toward them is doctrinal and instructive to us, not immediately or literally, but by way of Anagogy" - Henry Hammond

I don't teach salvation by the works of the law.
I don't teach that the church is Israel.
I'm not "Judaized".

You're carnal, shallow, by the letter and no deeper in your approach to scripture, characteristic of the Judaized.

As Middle-Eastern Arab born again Christian, I can smell Jew-envy and Jew-complex a mile away.
Esau's complex against Jacob still runs in Gentile veins.
It's an inferiority complex.

Nah, you just got a bad smeller.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

The "thousand years" starts with the binding of Satan. A spiritual event that cannot be witnessed with one's natural eyes.

The Gospel cannot go forth unless the "strong man" is first bound.

Matthew 12:28-29.

Luke 10:17-20
​

You will say this hasn't happened because the binding doesn't look like your carnal notions thereof. You think that men are little angels and will live pure, peaceful and perfect little lives if the devil cannot deceive the nations. You don't think they're already corrupt, deceivers of themselves, or driven by their lusts to idolize their bellies. [bold added to the original]

Your caricaturing my views does not speak well of your valuing the need to represent properly the views of people with whom you disagree. You have some heart issues that you need to deal with so that you can interact properly, the way a Christian should.