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Calvinism Fact Sheet #2, by Joel Barnes: Unconditional Election

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Titus Tarnum

Titus Tarnum

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Yeshua1 said:
Per the Bible, NONE seeking after God themselves!
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Jesus was the only spotless human and everyone needs His sacrifice so I would have to agree that none are worthy, 1 John 4:19 we love Him because He first loved us, if God didn't love us we wouldn't seek Him so I would have to agree that none seek God without prompting [emoji3]


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Titus Tarnum

Titus Tarnum

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atpollard said:
[Ezekiel 18:30-32 NKJV]
30 "Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways," says the Lord GOD. "Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin. 31 "Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Israel? 32 "For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies," says the Lord GOD. "Therefore turn and live!"​

[1 Timothy 2:1-4 NKJV]
1 Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, [and] giving of thanks be made for all men, 2 for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. 3 For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.​

Is God just blowing smoke? Mocking?
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Whether you espouse Calvinism or Arminianism or anything else the same amount of people have died in there sin, and will anyone deny that God has known all along who would be damned and who would be saved?
If God knew you would be damned why would He love you; because at one point you were considered someone He could die for and until the point that you were no longer one of His imperfect creations, but instead you were a child of His enemy, there was still love for you.
 
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Titus Tarnum

Titus Tarnum

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ad finitum said:
It is more likely that modern man has misread Isaiah and Paul using the faulty practice of proof-texting (quoting out of context).
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Some people don't believe that Paul was an Apostle and that God spoke through him; Do you believe that Paul spoke for God?


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utilyan

utilyan

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Yeshua1 said:
has ANY save Jesus be Holy, as God is? As need moral perfection to get to heaven and bypass hell!
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You need to raise the bar on what God is. Being sinless doesn't make you divine, it just makes you NORMAL. Jesus states this:

Luke 17
7“Suppose one of you has a servant plowing or looking after the sheep. Will he say to the servant when he comes in from the field, ‘Come along now and sit down to eat’? 8Won’t he rather say, ‘Prepare my supper, get yourself ready and wait on me while I eat and drink; after that you may eat and drink’? 9Will he thank the servant because he did what he was told to do? 10So you also, when you have done everything you were told to do, should say, ‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty.’ ”
 
utilyan

utilyan

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ad finitum said:
If all deserve hell, then it must be true that all deserve to drown, too. Correct?
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You are correct. Thats the glaring problem. Calvinist can only comprehend a Recompense of EVIL FOR EVIL. They are stuck on a sinful man's idea of right and wrong.

A mother looses their child to killers........here are the heads of the killers. That's not justice. The very word in Hebrew means charity. Full justice has to restore.
 
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Yeshua1

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utilyan said:
You are correct. Thats the glaring problem. Calvinist can only comprehend a Recompense of EVIL FOR EVIL. They are stuck on a sinful man's idea of right and wrong.

A mother looses their child to killers........here are the heads of the killers. That's not justice. The very word in Hebrew means charity. Full justice has to restore.
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God is Holy, ANY sin done makes one not able to go to heaven, and are hell bound!
 
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Yeshua1

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utilyan said:
You need to raise the bar on what God is. Being sinless doesn't make you divine, it just makes you NORMAL. Jesus states this:

Luke 17
7“Suppose one of you has a servant plowing or looking after the sheep. Will he say to the servant when he comes in from the field, ‘Come along now and sit down to eat’? 8Won’t he rather say, ‘Prepare my supper, get yourself ready and wait on me while I eat and drink; after that you may eat and drink’? 9Will he thank the servant because he did what he was told to do? 10So you also, when you have done everything you were told to do, should say, ‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty.’ ”
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ONLY Jesus is Holy and sinless!
 
utilyan

utilyan

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Titus Tarnum said:
Are you saying we can be sinless on our own, without the intervention of Christ?


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Impossible. All function of Good has God for its source. Even that rock or tree outside which probably haven't sinned are sustained in existence by Jesus.
 
Titus Tarnum

Titus Tarnum

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utilyan said:
Impossible. All function of Good has God for its source. Even that rock or tree outside which probably haven't sinned are sustained in existence by Jesus.
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[emoji3][emoji106]

But do you think God wants to take the rock to Heaven; is the rock good enough for Heaven?
 
Titus Tarnum

Titus Tarnum

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utilyan said:
Good point, both Adam and Eve were born sinless. ERGO it is as God pleases.
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Christ was born sinless and was the only human to stay that way, do you think any other human could remain sinless apart from having the righteousness of Christ?


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Titus Tarnum

Titus Tarnum

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utilyan said:
As God pleases. Or should we add having a sinless baby to the list of things God can't do?
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What about babies, their salvation is a hard topic for some people, how is a baby saved; do they go to Heaven if they die and get a spiritual body because due to absence of personal sin they deserve it? Do they have to accept Jesus as their personal savior and have the Holy Spirit inhabit them or is their spirit pure and doesn't need anything?

Romans 8:9-11 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

As I understand it everyone needs the Spirit of Christ and everyone is resurrected through Him so even babies need Jesus. I don't imagine babies will get a baby body in Heaven, and I don't imagine them being apart from the righteousness of Christ in Heaven on their own righteousness, but I do know that flesh and blood cannot inherent the Kingdom of God and the only body offered is one bought by Christ.[emoji3]


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utilyan

utilyan

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Titus Tarnum said:
Christ was born sinless and was the only human to stay that way, do you think any other human could remain sinless apart from having the righteousness of Christ?


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You have to understand this mindset and work it to other equations, God is LOVE.

Nothing can be RIGHTEOUS without Love/God.

A person can't save themselves. Like the third time I've said it.

Why do you think you can save yourself apart from Jesus? doubt. I'd like you to find one Christian that does.
 
utilyan

utilyan

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Titus Tarnum said:
What about babies, their salvation is a hard topic for some people, how is a baby saved; do they go to Heaven if they die and get a spiritual body because due to absence of personal sin they deserve it? Do they have to accept Jesus as their personal savior and have the Holy Spirit inhabit them or is their spirit pure and doesn't need anything?
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Matthew 18
1At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? 2And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, 3And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. 4Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me. 6But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.


We're talking about GOD here not someone who has to work out spiritual mechanics. Not someone wondering if there is enough Jesus juice in the tanks.


Those in the spirit of obsessing of damning other folks are not in the holy spirit.
 
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