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Rev. 9:10: Historical Facts vs. Futurist Fiction

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by asterisktom, Apr 9, 2021.

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  1. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    I do not understanding a connection. There is something you are are understanding I am not getting.
     
  2. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Then, simply **PROVE** it.

    Again, tell us when all life in the Mediterranean died.

    And when did an earthquake split Jerusalem into 3 parts? the last major quake to hit J was in 1927, killing 130 people, and it was far from the biggest quake the world had ever seen.
     
  3. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    The WHOLE eschatological set of Scriptures should be taken literally, except where it's obviously symbolic, such as the dragon pursuing the woman, etc. And the LITERAL meanings are easily seen.

    If you knew eschatology that well, you'd know preterism is false, & there are plenty of events yet to come.

    And the Roman army didn't commit the AOD. Remember, SCRIPTURE says that it'll be the antichrist, Paul's man of sin, & the false prophet that'll do it, and that the antichrist shall declare himself to be God. The Romans didn't do THAT, nor did they issue any marka the beast from the temple, nor set up a statue in it that was supernaturally made to talk, causing the world to marvel. You're 'WAY off the mark !
     
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Would be the same though as say Infant regeneration!
     
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Premil is still the most biblical position!
     
  6. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    I believe the order of events is clearly laid out in Scripture: coming of the beast/antichrist, rapture, AOD & marka the beast, great trib, Jesus' return, millenium.
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I see the Rapture as the Second Coming event, but either way, still premil fits the messianic Age much better!
     
  8. timtofly

    timtofly Well-Known Member

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    Matthew 24:29-31

    29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

    30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

    31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet.


    Revelation 6:12-13

    12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

    13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

    The stars are the angels coming to earth. After this the 7 angels sound the Trumpet.

    This is the Second Coming. The end of the church. The final harvest of Christ, Himself on earth. The 144k are His Second Coming disciples.
     
    #128 timtofly, Apr 19, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
  9. Lodic

    Lodic Well-Known Member

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    Either that or I am missing what you are saying. You see the Disciples asking different questions about different topics, and Jesus giving separate answers. I see them asking one question and Jesus answering only that question.
     
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  10. Lodic

    Lodic Well-Known Member

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    All life in the sea did not literally die. This was hyperbole.
     
  11. Lodic

    Lodic Well-Known Member

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    A lot of eschatological passages are symbolic, especially in the Book of Revelation. There is no mention of "The Antichrist" anywhere in Scripture except in 1st and 2nd John.

    The Futurist view simply doesn't make sense to me, and the Preterist view doesn't make sense to you.
     
  12. Lodic

    Lodic Well-Known Member

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    I see your point, and I am tempted to agree. One of the key doctrines of our faith is looking for the return of Christ.
     
  13. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Siege of Jerusalem = 14 April – 8 September 70 CE
    John wrote the book of Revelation = about 95-96 AD

    Ice, Thomas D., "The Date of the Book of Revelation" (2009). Article Archives. 75.
    The Date of the Book of Revelation
     
    #133 atpollard, Apr 20, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2021
  14. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    It is interesting that dispensationalists almost always go to Matthew 24 for their text, hardly ever Mark or Luke. The reason might be twofold. First, the question at the beginning of that chapter is in three phrases, easy for them to cast them as three supposedly very separate questions. Secondly, the ordering of verses makes it easier for them to mark off what they consider is still future.

    But the other two Synoptics show the events in a different order. And there are no three questions asked from the disciples - although Christ, in those other two books, answered the question as posed in Matthew 24.

    So - there really was only one question.
    And there really was one event described in all three of those Synoptics (and in the extended Olivet DIscourse of John - AKA the book of Revelation). That event was the coming of Christ in "this generation" meting out retribution and reward, respectively, to enemies and saints.
     
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  15. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    In the rapture, Jesus will call the saints to Him, rather than Him mcoming to them as He will do when He physically returns to earth & "touches down".
     
  16. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Yes, to a preterist who seeks to find an excuse to try to say it's already happened. That's all prets have-excuses, imagination, & guesswork.
     
  17. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    I hope you reconsider the possibility that Ice is off. Aside from the weighty proof for a 60s date for Revelation we have the odd fact that John, supposedly having lived through the fall of Jerusalem and the epochal end of the Jewish Dispensation, makes no mention of it in his Book. He even writes as if the Temple was still standing. Which it was.
     
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  18. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    The beast & the antichrist will be one & the same.

    OF COURSE preterism doesn't make sense to me because history and reality prove it false.
     
  19. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    The temples John wrote about are the heavenly one, which he calls just that, the millenial one he was told to measure, & the one the Jews will build in Jerusalem, where the AOD will occur.

    Do a little research, & you'll see that the Jews have the construction materials & the instruments for use in a new temple ready. And also, they're breeding animals for use in temple rites, having bred several red heifers a few years back, among others. AND IN 2018, THEY BUILT & CONSECRATED AN ALTAR TO BE USED IN THAT TEMPLE WHEN BUILT ! !

    Now, I'm not trying to be smart-aleck, but, as a Christian, I believe reality & history are shaped by Scripture, & reality is, the Jews will build a new temple in J when the time is right. They'll build it in just a few days with modern equipment, pre-fabbed parts, etc.
     
  20. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    Robycop, I "did a little research". I did a lot of it. I used to believe exactly as you did for around twenty years, giving money to Jews for Jesus, etc. Looking forward to that Third Temple. But at some point, among other red flags, some one pointed out to me just how would it be possible for any future temple to have an abomination on it. An abomination, biblically, is a violation of God's Law. How can this supposed temple be abominated when it in itself would be an abomination. The very building of it would be an abomination.

    "Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand)" - Matt. 24:15

    "The Holy Place". That is a real problem for your view. There are no more holy places. So there cannot be any more abominations done in it, or to it.
     
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