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The mystery of the church age

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George Antonios

George Antonios

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I reckon that more than half of the men on this board would sorely disagree with the doctrine of this video but I'm presenting it that at least you know how I perceive the gospel teachings of my Lord Jesus Christ. Maybe you are already aware of dispensationalism, and reject it with a passion, but I still think you might at least get some insight as to my (and others') viewpoint, in order to more specifically form your counter-points.
It's just 18 minutes, so if possible, please listen to the whole thing.

 
37818

37818

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Seriously, what passage in the written word of God refers to this age as mystery?
 
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Paul from Antioch

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To me, it would depend on how one interprets "Church." In classical Greek times, that word was used to describe a rather localized city-state's governing body. In ancient Greek history one will see that localized body in the conflicts of Athens vs Sparta. The fact that these entities often had allies from other city-states does not take away the fact that each localized city-state's future was one that depended primarily on the successes or failures of that given city-state. IMHO, Holy Spirit made an excellent choice by using a local, called-out assembly of legitimate citizens to conduct the business/affairs of each localized city.
 
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rlvaughn

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37818 said:
Seriously, what passage in the written word of God refers to this age as mystery?
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Not that I agree with George's premise, but here are some of the passages he mentions concerning the mystery in the 18 minute video: Romans 16:25-27; Ephesians 3:2-5; Colossians 1:25-27.
George Antonios said:
I reckon that more than half of the men on this board would sorely disagree with the doctrine of this video but I'm presenting it that at least you know how I perceive the gospel teachings of my Lord Jesus Christ. Maybe you are already aware of dispensationalism, and reject it with a passion, but I still think you might at least get some insight as to my (and others') viewpoint, in order to more specifically form your counter-points.
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George, I had the opportunity the listen to the video in the car yesterday (which had the downside of not being able to look at the charts, but I am somewhat familiar with Larkin's charts from the past). I don't wish to engage in a point-counterpoint here, but rather wish to acknowledge that I actually listened to the video and appreciate your spelling out your viewpoint. I consider myself a dispensationalist of sorts. However, I do not agree with the view that seems to see the New Testament church as a sort of afterthought filling in a gap because the Jews rejected Jesus as their earthly king.

Jesus came for the purpose of giving his life a ransom (Matthew 20:28; Mark 10:45; Acts 2:23) and the church is included in "the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Ephesians 3:8-12).

Thanks. Have a blessed day.
 
George Antonios

George Antonios

Well-Known Member
The video was very visual, that was the thrust, but I appreciate that you listened and noted that you didn't see it.

rlvaughn said:
I do not agree with the view that seems to see the New Testament church as a sort of afterthought
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Who ever said it was an afterthought? Paul says were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world.
It played out that way, and it could have played out another way, and God would still have gotten his desired end result, but it doesn't mean it was an afterthought in the mind of God.
 
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Yeshua1

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George Antonios said:
The video was very visual, that was the thrust, but I appreciate that you listened and noted that you didn't see it.



Who ever said it was an afterthought? Paul says were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world.
It played out that way, and it could have played out another way, and God would still have gotten his desired end result, but it doesn't mean it was an afterthought in the mind of God.
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Classic Dispy theology though does see the Church as plan B, as conditionally based upon if Israel would have received Jesus as their promised messiah and King!
 
George Antonios

George Antonios

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Yeshua1 said:
Classic Dispy theology though does see the Church as plan B, as conditionally based upon if Israel would have received Jesus as their promised messiah and King!
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A) Already answered. If Israel had received Christ, Gentiles would have still been saved and blessed (Ro.11:12) but in a millennial setting rather than a church age setting.
B) Cry-baby-envy-I'm-more-important-than-that-pride doesn't disannul truth.
Heresy is a work of the flesh, and the flesh hates to think it's not that important.
We're not that important. Live with it.
 
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Yeshua1

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George Antonios said:
A) Already answered. If Israel had received Christ, Gentiles would have still been saved and blessed (Ro.11:12) but in a millennial setting rather than a church age setting.
B) Cry-baby-envy-I'm-more-important-than-that-pride doesn't disannul truth.

We're not that important. Live with it.
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God knew and used the rejection of national israel to bring now both saved Jews and Gentiles into the Church!
was always His plan A!
 
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percho

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percho said:
I was about to ask the same thing. Where is church, "age," spoken of in the bible?
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We actually agree, it is just that I would not call this present time of the building of the church, an age. I believe in this present, age, people marry and are given in marriage, which began with A&E, and in the next age they do not marry. I agree Jesus did not teach concerning the church, he taught concerning the kingdom of God.

I believe the church is being built as, the governing body of Christ, for the kingdom of God.

The dead in Christ, Thessalonians, Larry, Curly and Mo, had been given the first-fruit of the Spirit, they had been baptized into the body of Christ but when the spirit in them returned to God who gave it, they died, they went to the place of the dead, how are they going to be in the kingdom of God?

Just as their King Jesus had done. Luke 23:46 YLT and having cried with a loud voice, Jesus said, 'Father, to Thy hands I commit my spirit;' and these things having said, he breathed forth the spirit. Acts 2:31 YLT having foreseen, he did speak concerning the rising again of the Christ, that his soul was not left to hades, nor did his flesh see corruption.

How are those who as flesh and blood and had been baptized by the Spirit into the church yet died going to be in the kingdom of God?

for if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, so also God those asleep through Jesus he will bring with him,
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. --- Including Larry, Curly and Mo.

I can see the valley between those two peaks but why is it there.
 
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Paul from Antioch

Active Member
This may not directly relate to this "Church Age" issue, but it is interesting to note why the Holy Spirit chose our English word "Church." Actually, that word is a translation of the Greek word "Ekklesia." In ancient Greece, this was what the Greeks referred to as their own local city-state governing body. A good example would be how the Athenians and the Spartans would often fight with each other. There were several battles between those two types of localized city-states. Athens tended to be more of a democracy governed by her legal citizens. OTOH, Sparta tended to be more of an autocratic dictatorship of self-appointed totalitarians. That small, divided nation would be racked with carnage inflicted by either (or both) sides, but when a foreign power threatened to overtake that relatively small nation that was located approximately mid-way between Europe and the Middle East, both warring cities would unite to fend off any foreign power that sought their downfall. To me, this seems to shed some light on those churches in Rev chs 1 -3 where Jesus warns each one that "I know your works...Repent!"
 
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rlvaughn

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George Antonios said:
Who ever said it was an afterthought? Paul says were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world.
It played out that way, and it could have played out another way, and God would still have gotten his desired end result, but it doesn't mean it was an afterthought in the mind of God.
Click to expand...
"Seems to see...as" was deliberately chosen, expressing the view from the outside looking in -- that is, that what you're saying can sound like that to those who do not agree with you. I do not think many who hold the New Testament church as a parenthesis in God's plan would use the term "afterthought" to describe their vies There are some William Lane Craigs in the world who think God does not know what he will do until we decide what we will do (because God does not know what we will do until we do it), but I suppose most plain Bible believers do not think that way.
 
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