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General Redemption.

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37818

37818

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
Faith comes from the Holy Spirit. Not you.
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Sanctification of the Spirit comes before the faith which comes before salvation, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit by which the believer then has the fruit of the Spirit.
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
Sanctification of the Spirit comes before the faith which comes before salvation, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit by which the believer then has the fruit of the Spirit.
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But, faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. Which comes first? The apple or the tree?
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
AustinC said:
You believe falsely.
The phrase "You cannot have your cake and eat it too" applies to your assertion.
Either all are redeemed (General redemption) or only those who believe are redeemed (Particular redemption). It cannot be both.
Either the world is universally atoned by the shed blood payment of Christ or only those who believe are atoned by the shed blood payment of Christ. It cannot be both.
Either God is fully in absolute control over his creation or God is not in control. Rogue molecules who are independent of the creator exist. It cannot be both.

The Bible gives no fraction of an inch to the concept of rogue actions outside of the ordained agreement of God. Any attempt to make man somehow independent of his Creator is an attempt to bring down God and cheapen his holy word. It is an open rebellion against the Almighty.
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Salvation is solely the work of God. General redemption in God in Christ bought all men. Particular redemption God bought specifically those He gave Christ to save.
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
Salvation is solely the work of God. General redemption in God in Christ bought all men. Particular redemption God bought specifically those He gave Christ to be save.
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If Christ paid for all sin, why do most perish? Because you believe he didn't pay for any sin or else all would be saved.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
If Christ paid for all sin, why do most perish? Because you believe he didn't pay for any sin or else all would be saved.
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Romans 14:9, "For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living."
The dead, Revelation 20:11-15.
The living, Revelation 20:4-6.
Romans 14:11.
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
Romans 14:9, "For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living."
The dead, Revelation 20:11-15.
The living, Revelation 20:4-6.
Romans 14:11.
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Only believers are saved because he paid for their sins. The catch is, they believe because he paid for their sins and he re-created them as believers.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
Your entire base is off when you think scripture teaches universal atonement. Your idea of sin is not biblical if you believe that way.
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Where do you find the atonement in Matthew 18:33-35 and an argument for general atonement out of Acts of the Apostles 10:43?
 
A

AustinC

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
Salvation is solely the work of God. General redemption in God in Christ bought all men. Particular redemption God bought specifically those He gave Christ to save.
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If God bought all men, then all men are made perfect in Christ and God will be unjust if he sends them to hell.
Either unbelievers were not bought and their sin sends them justly to hell, or unbelievers were bought and they are fully cleansed and thus are justified. They all go to heaven.

This is the magnitude of the atonement (redemption).
Only limited atonement (particular redemption) can be correct, otherwise God would be unjust.

I do not think you believe God is unjust, therefore I think you are ignorant of the ramifications of your theological position.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
Only believers are saved because he paid for their sins. The catch is, they believe because he paid for their sins and he re-created them as believers.
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Not how you think. For God's grace precedes faith, and the faith precedes being saved. You refuse to believe the clear teaching on this matter.
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
Not how you think. For God's grace precedes faith, and the faith precedes being saved. You refuse to believe the clear teaching on this matter.
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This is true but salvation is free from ANY human reaction. You react only after being saved. Just as the jailor did.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
AustinC said:
If God bought all men, then all men are made perfect in Christ and God will be unjust if he sends them to hell.
Either unbelievers were not bought and their sin sends them justly to hell, or unbelievers were bought and they are fully cleansed and thus are justified. They all go to heaven.

This is the magnitude of the atonement (redemption).
Only limited atonement (particular redemption) can be correct, otherwise God would be unjust.

I do not think you believe God is unjust, therefore I think you are ignorant of the ramifications of your theological position.
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You don't even understand how and the why I believe as I do. So if I am in error, how by making arguments against what I do not believe going to correct my view? Understand in order for general redemption to be true it must include particular redemption. Now if there are no Biblical reasons to believe also in a general redemption why do such Scriptures need to be explained away?
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
Matthew 18:33-35 is under the Law Acts of the Apostles 10:43 is the promise of forgiveness in faith in Christ.
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You need forgiveness before God can save you. This is why limited atonement, the forgiveness of the sins of certain individuals actually saves in and of itself.

“Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.” Matthew 18:33–35 (KJV 1900)

Answer?
“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9 (KJV 1900)

“To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.” Acts 10:43 (KJV 1900)

Answer?

Only the born again will believe. It is how you spot them. It never says whoever chooses to believe, as if is in man's depraved power.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
You need forgiveness before God can save you. This is why limited atonement, the forgiveness of the sins of certain individuals actually saves in and of itself.

“Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.” Matthew 18:33–35 (KJV 1900)

Answer?
“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9 (KJV 1900)

“To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.” Acts 10:43 (KJV 1900)

Answer?

Only the born again will believe. It is how you spot them. It never says whoever chooses to believe, as if is in man's depraved power.
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Your understanding of salvation before faith is nowhere taught in the word of God. Not one verse.
 
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