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Featured General Redemption.

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by 37818, Apr 19, 2021.

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  1. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Sanctification of the Spirit comes before the faith which comes before salvation, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit by which the believer then has the fruit of the Spirit.
     
    #101 37818, Apr 22, 2021
  2. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    But, faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. Which comes first? The apple or the tree?
     
    #102 1689Dave, Apr 22, 2021
  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Salvation is solely the work of God. General redemption in God in Christ bought all men. Particular redemption God bought specifically those He gave Christ to save.
     
    #103 37818, Apr 22, 2021
  4. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    If Christ paid for all sin, why do most perish? Because you believe he didn't pay for any sin or else all would be saved.
     
    #104 1689Dave, Apr 22, 2021
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    What is the error you see?
     
    #105 37818, Apr 22, 2021
  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Romans 14:9, "For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living."
    The dead, Revelation 20:11-15.
    The living, Revelation 20:4-6.
    Romans 14:11.
     
    #106 37818, Apr 22, 2021
  7. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    You will only argue if I interpret scripture your way. You answer it and I will comment on it.
     
    #107 1689Dave, Apr 22, 2021
  8. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Only believers are saved because he paid for their sins. The catch is, they believe because he paid for their sins and he re-created them as believers.
     
    #108 1689Dave, Apr 22, 2021
  9. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Your entire base is off when you think scripture teaches universal atonement. Your idea of sin is not biblical if you believe that way.
     
    #109 1689Dave, Apr 22, 2021
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Matthew 18:33-35 is under the Law Acts of the Apostles 10:43 is the promise of forgiveness in faith in Christ.
     
    #110 37818, Apr 22, 2021
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Where do you find the atonement in Matthew 18:33-35 and an argument for general atonement out of Acts of the Apostles 10:43?
     
    #111 37818, Apr 22, 2021
  12. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    If God bought all men, then all men are made perfect in Christ and God will be unjust if he sends them to hell.
    Either unbelievers were not bought and their sin sends them justly to hell, or unbelievers were bought and they are fully cleansed and thus are justified. They all go to heaven.

    This is the magnitude of the atonement (redemption).
    Only limited atonement (particular redemption) can be correct, otherwise God would be unjust.

    I do not think you believe God is unjust, therefore I think you are ignorant of the ramifications of your theological position.
     
    #112 AustinC, Apr 22, 2021
  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Not how you think. For God's grace precedes faith, and the faith precedes being saved. You refuse to believe the clear teaching on this matter.
     
    #113 37818, Apr 22, 2021
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  14. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    This is true but salvation is free from ANY human reaction. You react only after being saved. Just as the jailor did.
     
    #114 1689Dave, Apr 22, 2021
  15. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    You don't even understand how and the why I believe as I do. So if I am in error, how by making arguments against what I do not believe going to correct my view? Understand in order for general redemption to be true it must include particular redemption. Now if there are no Biblical reasons to believe also in a general redemption why do such Scriptures need to be explained away?
     
    #115 37818, Apr 22, 2021
  16. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    You need to study the right verses on atonement. Not those that do not mention it.
     
    #116 1689Dave, Apr 22, 2021
  17. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    You need forgiveness before God can save you. This is why limited atonement, the forgiveness of the sins of certain individuals actually saves in and of itself.

    “Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.” Matthew 18:33–35 (KJV 1900)

    Answer?
    “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9 (KJV 1900)

    “To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.” Acts 10:43 (KJV 1900)

    Answer?

    Only the born again will believe. It is how you spot them. It never says whoever chooses to believe, as if is in man's depraved power.
     
    #117 1689Dave, Apr 22, 2021
  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    You have no clue.
     
    #118 37818, Apr 22, 2021
  19. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    A sure sign of failure to defend one's position....Insults....
     
    #119 1689Dave, Apr 22, 2021
  20. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Your understanding of salvation before faith is nowhere taught in the word of God. Not one verse.
     
    #120 37818, Apr 22, 2021
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