Flawless Bible Poll

[Stratton7]

You describe many of your posts. You do not address the scriptural truths and facts that are problems for your reasoning. You just repeat your belief in assertions that are not true and in claims that have not been proven to be true.

This reminds me of a broken record I’ve been hearing quite often.

John of Japan cleared up something for me and I said thanks for the clarification.
Same with another member on this board.
I’m willing to accept where I see there needs a change based on what I believe are facts.

But never have I seen you accept anything anyone presents or even consider it. It’s a lot of “bogus” this or “claims to have not been proven true.” Lot of “not” statements and repetition.

Is it possible you have and it’s not being seen because you’re so fixated on the KJO controversy?

What evidence would you find acceptable if presented to you? You had said that you were looking for real evidence in one of your threads and you say you’re neutral on the topic (seriously?) So, if you’re preset to refute all presented evidence (from observation), why would you continue to suggest you’re seeking it and calling out others for not showing it?

 

[1689Dave]

Most historical Scriptural truths are self-evident.

Only when you want. The idea is to let scripture say it and not to use it as a Roarasach test.

 

[Logos1560]

So, if you’re preset to refute all presented evidence (from observation), why would you continue to suggest you’re seeking it and calling out others for not showing it?

My observations were address to another poster, George, in response to his allegations against another poster. I was applying his own assertions back to him himself. Did you fail to read the assertions to which I responded? Are you trying to suggest that they apply to you?

I have repeated accepted and favorably presented statements and observations made by KJV-only advocates when they are sound or true.

I am not at all preset to refute all presented evidence. It would be scriptural to object to evidence/measures/standards that are applied unjustly. You present no cases where I supposedly attempt to refute verifiable facts and truth. In order to make righteous judgments, the same exact measures/standards need to be applied justly. Part of clearly defining a concept and a truth is pointing out both what it is and what it is not. My focus is on the truth.

I have read the KJV over 50 years. My years of reading and studying it would make me biased for it. It is scriptural truth as translated in the KJV that leads me to oppose untrue claims or assertions made for it.

 

[robycop3]

He told Paul to remind Titus of these things, roby:

" Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,
2 to speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, [but] gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men." ( Titus 3:1-2 ).

Showing meekness ( gentleness ) is not "counter-attacking" them...
That is man's way of doing things, not God's way.

Quite the contrary, the Lord Jesus point-blank tells us this:

" Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets." ( Matthew 7:12 ).
See also Galatians 5:14, Romans 13:10, Luke 6:31, James 2:8.

Part of ministry is to speak the things that become sound doctrine, and to rebuke those in the church that hold to them...
and if necessary, to reject those that attempt to divide the body over false doctrines ( Titus 2:10-11 ).

But we are never to treat anyone badly for any reason, roby.
That is against His express commands.

I assure you, if someone tries to harm me or my family, that one's gonna be treated badly. That's entirely within Christianity. And remember, Jesus told the apostles to keep some swords handy.

Physical violence aside, those who spread false doctrines should be called down for it. That belief in unshakable in me. Those who promote false doctrines are leading others astray, and DOING SATAN'S WORK, even if those "leaders" are Christian. After all, Satan is the inventor of all false doctrines of faith/worship.

Now, here's something you can't deny: more than one KJVO says, "If youse aint a'usin' the KJV, youse aint saved!" You cannot deny the veracity of this. And some people wonder why some KJVOs get verbally lambasted...

 

[robycop3]

That's because He is God, and has the right and authority to do such things.
He also knows the hearts and minds of men...

You and I do not,
neither do we have any excuse for bad behavior towards our fellow man.

Not in that case, no.
Please see Romans 12, my friend.

We are to follow His words, and there's plenty in His word that tells us how we are to behave.

That said,
It seems that you believe that you can toss out His commands regarding personal conduct, so that we as believers can go on some sort of crusade against those who oppose us;
If I'm in error about this, then I ask your forgiveness...
But if I am not,
then I'll state it again so that it's clear for all who read it:

There is nothing in God's word that gives the believer in Jesus Christ the leeway to attack anyone for any reason.
That was the Old Testament and the Law of Moses, not the New Testament in His blood.

So, do you think Jesus sinned when He physically tore into the merchants, etc. inside the temple?

There are many things Jesus did which we cannot, such as performing miracles, but He also did many things that any person can do, & we should follow His example in those things.

And we are NOT to just stand there & become victims!

 

[robycop3]

The Holy Spirit is the believer's Teacher ( 1 Corinthians 2:6-16, 1 John 2:20-27 ) who leads them into all truth ( John 16:13 ).

God's people, while they may be carried about with every wind of doctrine for a time ( Ephesians 4:11-16 ),
have teachers and preachers to guide them to God's words.

He provides the shepherds for the very thing that it seems you're concerned about, so He's already got that all covered, roby.
Believers are in His hands from the moment He created them for Himself to the moment He calls them home...

Our words are not the deciding factor, but God does use the words of His pastors and teachers to direct His children to what His words say.
I understand your concern, but again, God's word doesn't give us any reason to attack anyone.

I agree, and for every scratch that Satan has, the Lord has a people whose ears do not itch.
Remember reading this?

" He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God." ( John 8:47 ).

In other words, the only ones whose ears "itch",
are the ones who actually have an itch to scratch.

God's people don't have itching ears, they only have ears for His words...
Not man's.
Please see John 10:4-5, John 10:27 and many others.

When it comes to His children, He loves them enough to correct them from His word;
He doesn't leave them at the whim of false teachers and preachers for long periods of time.


That said, I wish you a good evening...
and may God bless you with much wisdom and patience, my friend.

And may YOU awaken to the FACT that purveyors of bunk MUST be countered & their blather to be proven false to all who read it.

 

[robycop3]

Only when you want. The idea is to let scripture say it and not to use it as a Roarasach test.

Scripture shapes history, & they work together, with Scripture being the controlling factor.

 

[1689Dave]

Scripture shapes history, & they work together, with Scripture being the controlling factor.

Scripture forecasting the future is only understood after fulfillment.

 

[robycop3]

Scripture forecasting the future is only understood after fulfillment.

But so far it's been fulfilled QUITE-LITERALLY.

 

[Stratton7]

Now, here's something you can't deny: more than one KJVO says, "If youse aint a'usin' the KJV, youse aint saved!" You cannot deny the veracity of this. And some people wonder why some KJVOs get verbally lambasted...

Yes, and that’s unfortunate.

 

[1689Dave]

But so far it's been fulfilled QUITE-LITERALLY.

But you could not predict it as written. Jesus says fulfillment interprets prophecy. Not armchair buffs watching the News.

 

[robycop3]

Yes, and that’s unfortunate.

That's because KJVOs have no facts nor evidence to support their myth.

 

[robycop3]

But you could not predict it as written. Jesus says fulfillment interprets prophecy. Not armchair buffs watching the News.

Jesus said Jerusalem would be destroyed. It was. Jesus said not one stone of the temple would be left upon another. Fulfilled exactly. Had they had our news media, it woulda been deen from their armchairs.

 

[Paul from Antioch]

Seems to me to be a very leading question, but IHMO I'd vote NO because of its last half. I don't believe WE can obtain THE perfect, complete, infallible word because so far as I know (which ain't much I'll agree!! ), man has not found THE original manuscripts which IMHO are the ONLY perfect, complete, & infallible Word(s) of God. OTOH, I believe we have sufficient scripture to inform us about what God wants us to know & practice. Nothing that has man as its creator will pass the "infallible, complete & perfect test," but, OTOH, we've got enough to know what God wants us to. He IS God, and there are secrets known only to Him. He revealed His Word in His Son who lived among us....sinless & perfect in every way. Moreover, we who are saved have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit whose task is to guide fallible, sin-stained humans to Our Savior & what His Father wants us to know AND PRACTICE. My knowledge of Him & His desire(s) for me will ALWAYS be lacking so long as I'm in this body. OTOH, when "corruption shall put on INcorruption," THEN our joy will be complete. Translations are attempts to transmit His Word to us, but since they ultimately are the product(s)of mankind, they're bound to fall short. But as one Bible scholar put it, "It's not what I DON'T know about the Bible that troubles me....It's what I DO know and fail to act as He would want me to that troubles me!" ..... "Can I get me a witness?"

 

[Baptist4life]

I hate to bring it up, roby, but when you go on your " there's no Scripture to support it, so it must be false" rant, I must remind everyone of your belief that God created another race of human beings which is where Cain got his wife. Absolutely no Biblical support for that either, yet you still make that claim. You also believe God created the different races.... Causasion, negro, oriental, etc, separately. After all, in your own words, if someone is proclaiming a false doctrine, it must be exposed.

 

[robycop3]

Seems to me to be a very leading question, but IHMO I'd vote NO because of its last half. I don't believe WE can obtain THE perfect, complete, infallible word because so far as I know (which ain't much I'll agree!! ), man has not found THE original manuscripts which IMHO are the ONLY perfect, complete, & infallible Word(s) of God. OTOH, I believe we have sufficient scripture to inform us about what God wants us to know & practice. Nothing that has man as its creator will pass the "infallible, complete & perfect test," but, OTOH, we've got enough to know what God wants us to. He IS God, and there are secrets known only to Him. He revealed His Word in His Son who lived among us....sinless & perfect in every way. Moreover, we who are saved have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit whose task is to guide fallible, sin-stained humans to Our Savior & what His Father wants us to know AND PRACTICE. My knowledge of Him & His desire(s) for me will ALWAYS be lacking so long as I'm in this body. OTOH, when "corruption shall put on INcorruption," THEN our joy will be complete. Translations are attempts to transmit His Word to us, but since they ultimately are the product(s)of mankind, they're bound to fall short. But as one Bible scholar put it, "It's not what I DON'T know about the Bible that troubles me....It's what I DO know and fail to act as He would want me to that troubles me!" ..... "Can I get me a witness?"

I believe God has made His word known to us as HE has chosen for us to have it.

 

[robycop3]

I hate to bring it up, roby, but when you go on your " there's no Scripture to support it, so it must be false" rant, I must remind everyone of your belief that God created another race of human beings which is where cain got his wife. Absolutely no Biblical support for that either, yet you still make that claim. You also believe God created the different races.... Causasion, negro, oriental, etc, separately. After all, in your own words, if someone is proclaiming a false doctrine, it must be exposed.

If you want to discuss your (snip) further, please start another thread in the appropriate forum.

 

[Baptist4life]

What I'm discussing roby, is your hypocrisy. What is silly about exposing a false doctrine? It's not my silliness, btw, it's yours! I'm trying to understand your rationale. You want to "expose" KJVOism, and it's un-Biblical belief, yet you DON'T want to "expose" your own un-Biblical belief. I guess I don't get how you can love talking about what you consider others faults, yet get upset when someone wants to talk about yours. After all isn't exposing false beliefs what you said you spend your life doing? I'm only following in your footsteps.

As far as the KJVO topic, I've said it before, I just don't see all the divisiveness and church splitting that you all are talking about anywhere. I just don''t. I say KJVO is wrong, I don't believe in it, yet, because I support and defend the KJV, I get called KJVO. Don't lump every person who likes, defends, and reads the KJV into the same category.

 

[Stratton7]

That's because KJVOs have no facts nor evidence to support their myth.

We disagree here obviously, but I wasn’t talking about KJ vs MV. I was saying it’s unfortunate that some people that hold only to KJB believe it’s the only way to salvation.
I was agreeing with you for once, but then you lump all KJO’s in one group that all have the same beliefs which is not true.

 

[Baptist4life]

robycop3 said: ↑
That's because KJVOs have no facts nor evidence to support their myth.

You always leave me scratching my head trying understand the way you think, because you have no facts or evidence to support your myth either.


I don't see KJVO people on here trying to defend KJVOism. I see people, like me, defending the KJV. Big difference. Some claim they've seen church splits, accusations of not being saved, etc. I don't see any of that on this forum. How about you guys take your arguments to those people that you say are guilty of those things. You're accusing people who post here that, as far as I can see, made none of those claims. MY problem is that I see a couple people constantly attacking a Bible version that numerous people have used their entire lives, grouping everyone who takes offense at their bashing the KJV as being KJVO, when they have no idea whether they are or not, and then attacking them for it.