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Featured KJVO vs any other translation(s).

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Paul from Antioch, Apr 17, 2021.

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  1. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    The best version (translation) is the one that best communicates God's Word to you. We have to remember that we are talking about translations. Every translation carries with it interpretive decisions. The KJV had a particular mandate and theology which influenced the translators choice of words or terms in English (it is still a very good, albeit perhaps not for contemporary English, translation). So is the ESV, NKJV, NASB and HCSV.

    There are instances where the HCSV is more curate than the KJV, ESV and NIV (John 3:16 comes to mind). There are passages where the NIV excelks in communicating th meaning of the source text. The KJV is excellent in preserving much of the OT literary tools (something the ESV tried to capture).

    But in the end of the day the best translation is the one you will study as a translation. They are all perfect translations, yet all also carry the problem inherent with all translations. Translations never perfectly carry the meanings of every source word. Some words (like logos) do not have an exact English corresponding equivalent.

    But God's Word is perfectly preserved in each of these translations. We just have to know how to deal with translations.

    An interesting thing(with translation) is the role of poor word choices and tradition. Lucifer Calaritanus, for example, was a 2nd Century Christian leader. Lucifer was a popular Christian name until the KJV carried over the Latin into the OT translation. That was a very poor choice (bring a Latin word, surprisingly poor).

    But that's just a bit of trivia.
     
    #41 JonC, May 21, 2021
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    None are perfect in the sense of being exactly as the Originals were from God!
     
    #42 Yeshua1, May 21, 2021
  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    That is not what "perfect" means in regards to a translation. A car is the perfect vehicle for a Sunday drive. It is not a perfect airplane.
     
    #43 JonC, May 21, 2021
  4. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    I thought this might be interesting for discussion, so started a thread about An Army of One Million.
     
    #44 rlvaughn, May 21, 2021
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Would prefer to use term Infallible, as no translation would be either inspired or perfect!
     
    #45 Yeshua1, May 24, 2021
  6. Paul from Antioch

    Paul from Antioch Active Member

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    Romans 10:17 explicitly states that, "Faith cometh by HEARING, and HEARING by the THE Word of God." Therefore these 1611 KJVO advocates are demanding that (1) A deaf person (one who cannot HEAR the Word of God must first and foremost somehow find some means of actually HEARING the Word of God in order to exercise faith so that he/she CAN exercise faith, AND (2) He/She MUST understand early 17th century English since that is the language in which the "Inspired and therefore INFALLIBLE" Word of God was written (ANY updAT=
     
    #46 Paul from Antioch, May 24, 2021
  7. Paul from Antioch

    Paul from Antioch Active Member

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    #47 Paul from Antioch, May 24, 2021
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    the 1611 Kjv has had revisions updates itself since 1611, were all of those editions then a perfect translation, even though disagree with 1611 hundreds of times?
     
    #48 Yeshua1, May 24, 2021
  9. Paul from Antioch

    Paul from Antioch Active Member

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    #49 Paul from Antioch, May 25, 2021
  10. Paul from Antioch

    Paul from Antioch Active Member

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    Salty, I don't see the reading level age(s) for Tyndale's New Living Translation (NLT) that was copyrighted in 1996 & 2004. One reason for me asking this is because this is the Bible that I primarily use. If you can supply me with this info, I'd appreciate it. Thanks in advance for any info about this!
     
    #50 Paul from Antioch, May 25, 2021
  11. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    Using the New Living Translation at Bible Gateway (says it is copyright © 1996, 2004, 2015) and Microsoft Word 2016, I checked the Flesch-Kincaid scores for three chapters from the NLT. These three (Jude, Obadiah, 2 John) came out with an average grade level of 6.5 (roughly 11 or 12 years old in the U.S.).

    Here are the specifics:
    Jude
    • Flesch Reading Ease 71.8
    • Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level 7.3
    Obadiah
    • Flesch Reading Ease 75.1
    • Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level 6.2
    2 John
    • Flesch Reading Ease 79.9
    • Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level 6.1
    I chose these because they are short books of one chapter each.

    The Flesch Reading Ease test rates text on a 100-point scale. The higher the score means the easier it is to understand the document. The Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level test rates text on a U.S. school grade level. For example, a score of 8.0 would mean that an eighth grader should be able to understand the document.

    The Flesch-Kincaid scale is a measure of sentence length/words-per-sentence, word length/syllables-per-word only. It does not measure vocabulary. Vocabulary and sentence structure, which Flesch-Kincaid does not measure, can change the readability of a document. In my opinion, the Flesch-Kincaid tests actually tell us very little about comparing the readability of various Bible versions. However, I expect most of all the Bible Reading levels that are out there are based on Flesch-Kincaid.
     
    #51 rlvaughn, May 25, 2021
    Last edited: May 25, 2021
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  12. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    From wiki:
    The New Living Translation is (according to its publisher) intended to be easily accessible to readers of modern English. As part of this effort:[6]

    • Weights and measures, money, dates and times, etc., are described in modern terms, with footnotes giving the literal translation. For example, the Gospel of John 6:7 reads: "Philip replied, 'Even if we worked for months, we wouldn't have enough money to feed them'", with a note that the Greek text reads "Two hundred denarii would not be enough" and an explanation that a denarius was equivalent to a laborer's full day's wage.
    • Some phrases are translated into contemporary English; e.g. "they beat their breasts" (Luke 23:48) is translated as "They went home in deep sorrow", again with footnotes providing more literal interpretations.
    • Gender-inclusive language is used where the editors believed that it was appropriate, thus ἀδελφοί (adelphoi) is translated "brothers and sisters".
    Meet the Team – NLT | New Living Translation

    https://biblology.com/is-the-nlt-a-paraphrase-or-a-translation/
     
    #52 Salty, May 25, 2021
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  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Colossians 1:15, ". . . Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: . . .". (I understand "firstborn" to refer to His bodily resurrection per Colossians 1:18).

    NLT, ". . . Christ is the visible image of the invisible God. He existed before anything was created and is supreme over all creation, . . ."
    (This is just too wrong for me.)
     
    #53 37818, May 25, 2021
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  14. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    I agree. While doctrinally correct, it's not a correct translation. A Bible translation should be ACCURATE to its sources.
     
    #54 robycop3, May 25, 2021
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  15. Paul from Antioch

    Paul from Antioch Active Member

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    "rlvaughn, post 2706383 member 969": Did you (Like I often times do!!) miss a decimal point in your post? As I literally read it, it's telling me that: (1) The reading ease for the three books you mention is for at least a 71 YO; and (2) One must have at least attained either a sixth or a seventh grade level to understand these books. I don't think that's literally what you meant, but then I may have simply misinterpreted what you've posted. I'd appreciate it very much. Thanks in advance for clarifying this post of yours!!
     
    #55 Paul from Antioch, May 25, 2021
  16. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    No, that is not 71 years old. It is a Flesch Reading Ease grade of 71.8, 75.1, and 79.9. That is just a way they assign a number for comparison to the ease of reading, between 0 and 100. The higher the number, the easier it is supposed to be to read.
    Yes, that is what the second number means, a grade level of 6.5 (6th or 7th), which is usually children 11 to 12 years old here in the United States. I do not claim it is correct, but that is how the test scored those three books from the NLT. It is just a computer test, not like they actually studied real people reading something.

    Hope this helps, and perhaps the following will help. (Don't know, just found it and have not read it myself,)
    The Flesch Reading Ease and Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level
     
    #56 rlvaughn, May 25, 2021
  17. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    One thing to keep in mind is that a particular chapter or short book, might be on a 6th grade level - and other books and/or chapters may be a college sophomore level. - So over all - it may be - say a 10th grade level.
     
    #57 Salty, May 25, 2021
  18. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    That is correct. What I tested only applies to those three books. You would have to get the average of the whole Bible to know the true Flesch Kincaid Reading Level of the NLT. The 66 books average might be higher or lower or about the same.
     
    #58 rlvaughn, May 25, 2021
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  19. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    #59 rlvaughn, May 25, 2021
  20. Paul from Antioch

    Paul from Antioch Active Member

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    I think that what Wikipedia means is that someone with at least a Middle School (usually that would mean up to Grade 8 or 9) should be able to comprehend this version. OTOH, like you posted Wikipedia doesn't indicate from where it secured this info. Usually I've found that Wikipedia is a fairly reliable source of info (i.e., it doesn't appear that it, per se, has a pre-concieved agenda on the topic it presents.)
     
    #60 Paul from Antioch, May 27, 2021
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