Featured The Heavens and Earth: Matt. 5:18 in Covenant Context

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled". - Matthew 5:18

We bring so much of our own worldview into Scripture that we have a hard time understanding Bible terminology. And many churches today do not help the situation. They are New Testament churches - in the worst sense. They teach the New Testament as a stand-alone revelation, disconnected from the foundational background that gives meaning to much of the New Testament.

Case in point is the "heaven and the earth". No, "heaven and earth" do not exist today. Not the "heaven and earth" that Jesus was speaking about in Matt. 5:18. Those heavens and earth refer to the Jewish dispensation.

"The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah.
Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth! For the LORD has spoken: "I have nourished and brought up children, And they have
rebelled against Me;" - Isaiah 1:1-2

Now, is God speaking to all of the Earth here? Is He speaking to the heavens? No. He is speaking to Israel; according to context, to "Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah".

"But I am the LORD your God, Who divided the sea whose waves roared; The LORD of hosts is His name. And I have put My words in your mouth; I have covered you with the shadow of My hand, That I may plant the heavens, Lay the foundations of the earth, And say to Zion, 'You
are My people.'" - Isaiah 51:15-16

When did God create the Heavens and Earth? According to this passage it was after He divided the Red Sea. Notice the tenses - "That I may plant..." No, I am not denying the physical creation as described in Genesis 1, but that is not the topic here. And - once again, focusing on this passage in Isaiah - what were the
accompanying results?

1. The planting of the heavens,
2. The laying of the foundations of the earth, and
3. The saying to Zion, "You are My people".

It is this "heavens and earth" Jesus is referring to in Matt. 5:18.

Peter, writing three decades later, but still before the Parousia, describes this same heavens and earth:

"But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men." 2 Peter. 3:7

Peter is looking forward to the time that Isaiah had written of:

"For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind." - Isaiah 65:17

Peter looked forward to an event that we now look back on. An event whose present reality we are blessed with. But once again, most have a hard time appreciating the context of Christ's, Peter's, and Isaiah's words because we are so attuned to our own understanding of the phrase "heavens and earth", not the Scriptural intent.

 

Oh please. What exactly from the Bible am I denying? The Bible, not tradition and creeds. You are steeped in the latter that you, apparently, cannot distinguish between the two.

You are the one that is having a hard time believing the word of Christ when He said, among other things, all these things shall come to pass in this generation. And He was answering the very disciples who had asked the question, not talking over their heads to generations millennia later.

The traditions of men make the Word of God of no effect. I believe the Word of God. If you think I am in error then I suggest you correct me with Bible references, something that your drive-by anathema of me is totally void of.

Do you believe Isa. 7:14 is true? Yes or no.

 

Is it a discussion you want? Or are you just venting? You flood the thread with five posts so I assume just the latter. I am not going to waste my time over twenty odd points. That is not a discussion.

Make one point, or just a few. Then I will answer.

 

You cannot just narrow it down to a question or two or three? It is to be either a flood or nothing? Fine. Give me one verse that I am denying.

 

duplicate post

 

No, Dave, it is "age", not "world". Look it up in the Greek.

I notice that you dispensationalists almost always go to the Olivet Discourse in Matthew, not the one in Mark or Luke. The reason, it seems, is that you can start out with this three-part question that seems to validate your futurist scenario. The fact is that this question is the same one that was reported in Mark and Luke. If the disciples really had asked something like what you are saying then we would have it also in the other two Synoptics.

All of these had happened in the first century.

No. It is a done deal.

But I will move on to your next post to see what you have. Since you would not give me a smaller post to work with I decided to just tackle all of these as I have time.

 

The fact that these things are still happening is not the point. And many of these events did not happen to the degree that they did in the first century.

The Gospel was to be preached in all the οἰκουμένῃ , which is pretty much coextensive with the Roman Empire. Actually the reason for this is that the Jewish Diaspora was pretty much in the same area. It is not the world as we think of it.

Strongs defines it as "land, i.e. The globe; specially, the Roman empire."

This is the same word used in Luke 2:1

"And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world - οἰκουμένῃ - should be taxed."

Clearly Caesar was not taking a census in order to tax all the countries of the world. It is the Empire that was his concern.

And the Gospel was indeed preached throughout that world. We have that assurance from Paul:

"... the Gospel, Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth" - Col. 1:6

"Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;" - Col. 1:23b


The rest will have to wait till later.

 

I really wish you were attuned to exactly what the Scriptures say. Then it would be easier when I draw your attention to an important cross reference to this passage above. In Mark 13:9:

But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.

Are these beatings in synagogues "still happening"?

The abomination has already happened. Back in the 1st century. The reason it flies over your radar is because you believe all of the imaginary Darbyist fictions. If you would read history (Josephus, especially, but also Tacitus and others) then you would have a better grounded idea of what the abomination really was.

Oh, I do take this seriously. I taught and preached the very things you are arguing for for decades. Until I finally really did notice what the Bible teaches.

More later

 

So is the word "Trinity". Yet I assume you believe it.

 

What you believe about what I don't believe is moot. No Scripture. Just tiresome knee-jerk assertions taught to you by tradition.


Once again: If you think I am in error then correct me with Bible references.

And: Do you believe Isa. 7:14 is true? Yes or no. Not a hard question.

For the record: I do not believe it. That verse says "The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son."

I do not believe it because it already happened. If I would believe it then it must mean that I think the Virgin Birth is still future.

Do you see my point? Transfer this over to the second coming and the resurrection. There are some things in the Bible that are spoken of as still future but then are fulfilled before our time.

Such as the Virgin Birth, the Incarnation, etc. By the same token the second coming and the rapture have also been fulfilled before our time. One cannot just quote verses saying it is future to prove a futurist point.

 

You need to study what "this generation" means. He did not people far in the future. He was speaking of His generation. This ties in with the many passages that assure us His coming would be in that time period. I would gladly go into this topic, but it would be different thread.

Neither is the fig tree Israel, BTW. Luke 21:29-31 adds "and all the trees".

This has been answered earlier.

Judging by this answer I assume you have not read Josephus.

Yes, this already happened. Another thread could go here.

If you were a better student of the Bible, Dave, and with more than a passing knowledge of Josephus you would see that all of these have been fulfilled to the letter. Part of the problem for you is that you are looking for worldwide scope for all of this, not recognizing that has to do with the end of the Jewish Dispensation. And what you think are going to be cosmic events in the future are actually events of a different nature expressed in cosmic, apocalyptic language - the same kind of language used in the Old Testament. Hills melting, stars falling, etc. all of that happened in the Old Testament. Why then do we try read Revelation in a literal way? Answer: We are unfamiliar with Old Testament.