Exacttly. Other wise Gentiles rule Israel They take away the inheritance of the Jews
MB
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MB
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
The Doctrine of Election is a Gospel Doctrine. Its vital to the Gospel of Gods Grace which Paul testified to Acts 20:24
24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.
And Election is of Grace Rom 11:5-6
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Salvation is either by Election of Grace or by works, no in between !
24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.
And Election is of Grace Rom 11:5-6
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Salvation is either by Election of Grace or by works, no in between !
I couldn't help but notice that none of the scriptures say any thing about Gentiles being elect. The remnant are Jews all through scripture.
MB
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
If it were a gospel doctrine you would be able to show that it is with scripture You haven't shown scripture that supports this nonsense. You can't prove your belief why believe it?
MB
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
If Salvation is by grace, then its by election ! Paul definitely writes that Salvation is by Grace opposed to works Eph 2:5,8-9
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Also Paul when writing of the elect jews in Rom 11 indicates that Salvation by Grace apart from works stems out of the Election of Grace Rom 11:5-6
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace [election of grace], then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
In Vs 6 here Paul has joind "by grace" with Vs5 " the election of grace"
And so if by grace [election of grace] its no more of works, which coincides with Paul's writing to the Ephesians that Salvation is by Grace through Faith and not of works !
Some will argue, that Eph 2:8 mentions Faith, yes it does, because faith/believing is through Grace [election of grace] Acts 18:27
27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:
The Faith of Gods Elect Titus 1:1
Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
There's no Preaching Salvation by Grace through Faith without preaching the Election of Grace !
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Also Paul when writing of the elect jews in Rom 11 indicates that Salvation by Grace apart from works stems out of the Election of Grace Rom 11:5-6
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace [election of grace], then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
In Vs 6 here Paul has joind "by grace" with Vs5 " the election of grace"
And so if by grace [election of grace] its no more of works, which coincides with Paul's writing to the Ephesians that Salvation is by Grace through Faith and not of works !
Some will argue, that Eph 2:8 mentions Faith, yes it does, because faith/believing is through Grace [election of grace] Acts 18:27
27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:
The Faith of Gods Elect Titus 1:1
Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
There's no Preaching Salvation by Grace through Faith without preaching the Election of Grace !
Dave G
Well-Known Member
But they do indeed, MB.
I'm sorry for any offense, but this has been shown to you many times.
In case you missed it before:
See Romans 11:1-32.
Also see Ephesians 4:17-19 ( where in Ephesians 1:4-5 Paul tells them that they were chosen in Christ from the foundation of the world,
and then tells those same Ephesians believers, in Ephesians 4:17-19, not to walk as other Gentiles walk ).
Finally, see Galatians 2:3 where Paul relates that Titus is a Gentile ( Greek ),
and he goes on to address Titus according to the faith of God's elect in Titus 1:1.
Gentile believers are His elect, just as Jewish believers are.
Did you somehow miss Romans 11:13-32, where Gentile believers are "grafted in" to Israel's "olive tree"?
Please read it again.
That has been done, MB.
However, it seems that you do not accept what those words say.
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Dave G
Well-Known Member
Dave G
Well-Known Member
See immediately above.
Just because you don't agree, does not mean there aren't others that either will, or already do.
So, "proving it" is a matter of whether or not you see the Scriptures saying what we see them saying...
is it not?
Stated another way,
Your disagreement with him and what he presents is simply you disagreeing with him.
As I see it, this holds no more overall authority than two farmers who insist that a tract of land that they each believe that they own, actually belongs to them.
Until a legal judge ( whom they both recognize as have absolute authority on the matter ) comes along and rules,
it's still one man's word against another.
Also, if you wish to characterize many of those that read the Scriptures for themselves and see that God does indeed save people "without their permission" as "Calvinists" ( who take their teachings from a man and not God's word ), then you are free to do so.
To me, that is on you,
as is the treatment of your fellow man with whom you disagree.
May the Lord judge between us, MB,
and may He bless you richly in both grace and knowledge whether or not we agree.