John Calvin on The Extent of Jesus' Death

[Yeshua1]

As I said, they run away from their doctrine.

Not at all, have in library Berkhof, Frame, Grudem, Vos, read any of then van in full?

 

[Yeshua1]

First Van avoids actually addressing my post. Did you see any reference to my post? Nope.

Next 1 Corinthians 2:13 is misrepresented. It says that 'The natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them because they are spiritually discerned.' It does of course say, in the clearest terms that the natural man cannot understand the Gospel, because the Gospel is something spiritual. 'Solid food (meat)' is nowhere mentioned in the text. More obfuscation on display.

Van fails to understand argument. More ignorance on display.

Van pretends that kosmos always means 'humanity. More obfuscation (and ignorance) on display.

Look at Acts of the Apostle 16:14 again. Did Paul open Lydia's heart to heed the things he spoke to her (i.e. the Gospel)? Nope. Did any of Paul's companions open her heart? Nope Did she open her own heart? Nope. Who opened Lydia's heart? God did. More obfuscation and denial of the plain meaning of the text.
Yes, and unless God does that, people will remain in darkness, because that is what they prefer (John 3:19).
Only if God opens the heart to receive it. It is God who makes the soil good. It does not make itself good. Those who hear, receive and fall away were never Christ's sheep (1 John 2:19).
Is there any scriptural evidence that 'given' to Christ (John 6:39 etc.) is the same as being 'placed spiritually into Him' (and exactly where is that in the Bible?)? Nope. More obfuscation on display.
Did either Van or I ever mention infants dying? Nope. More obfuscation on display.

The three statements are great; they were the only good part of your post. the problem is that you don't understand them, have wrenched them out of their context.

His view in regards to how we see salvation is interesting, as nothing found ion my various books have read on Calvinist theology!

 

[Van]

The myths pushed by Calvinists seem endless.

First their opponents do not understand Calvinism. But the fact is the proponents post misinformation about Calvinism.

Next they misrepresent their opponents, i.e. Van pretends Kosmos "always" means humanity.

Next "opened her heart" means enabled by irresistible grace. Does any verse say that? Nope.

Was Lydia a worshiper of God? Yes, thus was open to the word of God.

How does God open hearts to His word? Through witnesses, not supernatural enabling beams.

Next Calvinism says people cannot respond to God's revealed word, which is a denial of scripture.

Next they deny being given to Him, John 6:37 results in being placed within Christ and will not be cast out.

Next, the Calvinist happily admits he did not address the gift of faith to infants, which of course hides Calvinism.

 

[Van]

Not at all, have in library Berkhof, Frame, Grudem, Vos, read any of then van in full?

Now this brilliant poster equates having books and books of smokescreed spewing falsehood with running away from Calvinist doctrine by posting misinformation, such as people "will be" rather than "are" God's elect.

 

[Van]

His view in regards to how we see salvation is interesting, as nothing found ion my various books have read on Calvinist theology!

Certainly true of scripture, as nothing there is found to support the TULI of Calvinism.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Not at all, have in library Berkhof, Frame, Grudem, Vos, read any of then van in full?

how about Henry Thiessen, or Norman Geisler? Grudem is not too sound

 

[Van]

Did Christ die as a ransom for all? Yes.

Did this include "the church?" Yes

Did this exclude those not yet saved and never to be saved? Nope

 

[Yeshua1]

how about Henry Thiessen, or Norman Geisler? Grudem is not too sound

Hvae rerad therm also, but Geisler is very confused on Calvinism, as he equates 5 point one being Hyper, and that he is a "moderate" one!

 

[Yeshua1]

Certainly true of scripture, as nothing there is found to support the TULI of Calvinism.

Its all the way thru scriptures!

 

[Yeshua1]

Now this brilliant poster equates having books and books of smokescreed spewing falsehood with running away from Calvinist doctrine by posting misinformation, such as people "will be" rather than "are" God's elect.

Have you read "any
of them?"

 

[Yeshua1]

how about Henry Thiessen, or Norman Geisler? Grudem is not too sound

Grudem good. except in his takes on eternal subordination and spiritual gifts!

 

[Martin Marprelate]

The myths pushed by Calvinists seem endless.

The myths pushed by Van seem endless.

First their opponents do not understand Calvinism. But the fact is the proponents post misinformation about Calvinism.

First, he doesn't understand Calvinism and then, without adducing any evidence, accuses those who do of posting misinformation.

Next they misrepresent their opponents, i.e. Van pretends Kosmos "always" means humanity.

Next, Van pretends that he hasn't mistranslated kosmos time after time as 'humanity.'

Next "opened her heart" means enabled by irresistible grace. Does any verse say that? Nope.

Does Acts 16:14 say God offered to open her heart? Nope. Does the verse say God tried to open her heart? Nope. God opened her heart and it was opened. 'My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure.....Indeed, I have spoken it; I will also bring it to pass. I have purposed it; I will also do it' (Isaiah 46:10-11).

Was Lydia a worshiper of God? Yes, thus was open to the word of God.

Was Lydia a Christian before God opened her heart? Nope. She needed to be saved and God opened her heart.

How does God open hearts to His word? Through witnesses, not supernatural enabling beams.

Did the text say that witnesses opened Lydia's heart? Nope. God opened her heart.to receive the things spoken by Paul.

Next Calvinism says people cannot respond to God's revealed word, which is a denial of scripture.

Next Van pretends that Calvinism teaches that people cannot respond to God's revealed word. Of course they can, when God opens their hearts to do so. Before that they are dead in trespasses and sins

Next they deny being given to Him, John 6:37 results in being placed within Christ and will not be cast out.

Next Van deliberately confuses elect sinners being given to Christ for Him to save (John 6:37, 39; 17:2 etc.) with sinners being 'placed in Christ' which seems to be his misunderstanding of Colossians 1:13 which in fact teaches no such thing.

Next, the Calvinist happily admits he did not address the gift of faith to infants, which of course hides Calvinism.

Next, to obfuscate still further, he talks about a 'gift of faith' to infants, for which there is no Biblical text and which sounds a bit Roman Catholic to me, and has the brass neck to say it is Calvinism!

 

[Iconoclast]

The myths pushed by Van seem endless.
First, he doesn't understand Calvinism and then, without adducing any evidence, accuses those who do of posting misinformation.

Next, Van pretends that he hasn't mistranslated kosmos time after time as 'humanity.'

Does Acts 16:14 say God offered to open her heart? Nope. Does the verse say God tried to open her heart? Nope. God opened her heart and it was opened. 'My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure.....Indeed, I have spoken it; I will also bring it to pass. I have purposed it; I will also do it' (Isaiah 46:10-11).

Was Lydia a Christian before God opened her heart? Nope. She needed to be saved and God opened her heart.

Did the text say that witnesses opened Lydia's heart? Nope. God opened her heart.to receive the things spoken by Paul.

Next Van pretends that Calvinism teaches that people cannot respond to God's revealed word. Of course they can, when God opens their hearts to do so. Before that they are dead in trespasses and sins

Next Van deliberately confuses elect sinners being given to Christ for Him to save (John 6:37, 39; 17:2 etc.) with sinners being 'placed in Christ' which seems to be his misunderstanding of Colossians 1:13 which in fact teaches no such thing.
Next, to obfuscate still further, he talks about a 'gift of faith' to infants, for which there is no Biblical text and which sounds a bit Roman Catholic to me, and has the brass neck to say it is Calvinism!

You have correctly read his bogus musings not based on truth.
Van to his credit does try and man up and offer a biblical answer, just gets lost in the theological corn maze more than often then not.

 

[Van]

Its all the way thru scriptures!

Note folks the generalization, the stock and trade of Calvinist misinformation

 

[Van]

Have you read "any
of them?"

I read the book you seem not to comprehend. The B I B L E

 

[Van]

The myths pushed by Van seem endless. SNIP

Once again Martin addresses me and not the topic. This vicious and vindictive behavior should be telling...

Next the Calvinist pretends he can read minds, informing others concerning my knowledge. This infantile behavior should be telling...

Next he rewrites his material false statement (kosmos always means humanity) to kosmos is often used to refer to humanity. See a pattern of deceit?

Next he ignores the fact God uses witnesses to provide understanding of the gospel to the lost. No supernatural irresistible grace enabling beam.

Next, he claims I indicated Calvinism says those enabled by their supernatural beam cannot understand. Not what I said

Finally he denies Calvinism claims elect babies who die in the womb are given faith and saved. Another material false statement.

godly parents have no reason to doubt of the election and salvation of their children, whom it pleases God to call out of this life in their infancy.

Calvinism's falsehoods are defended using falsehoods as demonstrated above.

Did Christ die as a ransom for all? Yes.

Did this include "the church?" Yes

Did this exclude those not yet saved and never to be saved? Nope

 

[AustinC]

Once again Martin addresses me and not the topic. This vicious and vindictive behavior should be telling...

blah, blah, blah

Next the Calvinist pretends he can read minds, informing others concerning my knowledge. This infantile behavior should be telling...

blah, blah, blah

Next he rewrites his material false statement (kosmos always means humanity) to kosmos is often used to refer to humanity. See a pattern of deceit?

blah, blah, blah

Next he ignores the fact God uses witnesses to provide understanding of the gospel to the lost. No supernatural irresistible grace enabling beam.

blah, blah, blah

Next, he claims I indicated Calvinism says those enabled by their supernatural beam cannot understand. Not what I said

blah, blah, blah

Finally he denies Calvinism claims elect babies who die in the womb are given faith and saved. Another material false statement.
Calvinism's falsehoods are defended using falsehoods as demonstrated above.

blah, blah, blah

Did Christ die as a ransom for all? Yes.

Jesus atonement paid for those who believe and no one else

Did this include "the church?" Yes

The payment via atonement is only for those who believe and no others.

Did this exclude those not yet saved and never to be saved? Nope

The payment was never made for those who don't believe.

When you say "yes" you proclaim universalism and effective salvation for all. Yet, you cannot conceive that this is exactly what you are declaring. It has to be some huge blind spot in your mind that makes you incapable of seeing what you are openly declaring. I have tried repeatedly to help you see your universalism and you just repeatedly cannot see it.

 

[SavedByGrace]

The myths pushed by Van seem endless.
First, he doesn't understand Calvinism and then, without adducing any evidence, accuses those who do of posting misinformation.

Next, Van pretends that he hasn't mistranslated kosmos time after time as 'humanity.'

Does Acts 16:14 say God offered to open her heart? Nope. Does the verse say God tried to open her heart? Nope. God opened her heart and it was opened. 'My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure.....Indeed, I have spoken it; I will also bring it to pass. I have purposed it; I will also do it' (Isaiah 46:10-11).

Was Lydia a Christian before God opened her heart? Nope. She needed to be saved and God opened her heart.

Did the text say that witnesses opened Lydia's heart? Nope. God opened her heart.to receive the things spoken by Paul.

Next Van pretends that Calvinism teaches that people cannot respond to God's revealed word. Of course they can, when God opens their hearts to do so. Before that they are dead in trespasses and sins

Next Van deliberately confuses elect sinners being given to Christ for Him to save (John 6:37, 39; 17:2 etc.) with sinners being 'placed in Christ' which seems to be his misunderstanding of Colossians 1:13 which in fact teaches no such thing.
Next, to obfuscate still further, he talks about a 'gift of faith' to infants, for which there is no Biblical text and which sounds a bit Roman Catholic to me, and has the brass neck to say it is Calvinism!

your own "theology" is mostly UNBIBLICAL!

 

[SavedByGrace]

Its all the way thru scriptures!

well, the JW's think that their teachings are in the Bible, does not mean that they are! Reformed are known to TWIST and PERVERT the plain teachings of the Bible, as they do to John 3:16, for example, which alone destroys most of what they believe in TUILIP. They call themselves "Calvinists", yet reject Calvin on for whom Jesus' died, as the OP shows! The Bible is VERY clear in Luke 22, that Jesus told Judas that He was to shed His blood for his sins, and again, this is TWISTED by those who are "Reformed".

 

[SavedByGrace]

You have correctly read his bogus musings not based on truth.
Van to his credit does try and man up and offer a biblical answer, just gets lost in the theological corn maze more than often then not.

how about dealing with the OP? You probably claim to be a "Calvinist", and YET it is VERY CLEAR, that Calvin himself REJECTED the L in TULIP!!!