Featured Reconciliation

You are adding words to the passage in an attempt to make it mean the opposite of what Jesus said. That is very sad.

Jesus did not say, “those who are open to God’s Word will become My sheep”. No, He did not.

He said “you do not believe” (open to God’s word?) because you are not of My sheep.

You must realize these passages in context support the reformed position, so you are doing everything you can to undermine the very words of our Lord Jesus in order to support your beliefs.

I truly hope you will take a big deep breath, step back, and approach these passages without trying to prove or disprove any doctrine.

peace to you

 

Translation: "It is possible for me to coopt the fact that the tenor of the following passages correlates with the Calvinistic system thus framing the passages as proof texts".
Never mind that God's sheep are simply people that were already believers in the O.T. scriptures, never mind the fact that often sheep turn every one to his own way and won't listen to the shepherd, etc.

 

Van continues in calling fiction to any position contrary to his own. This is despite the fact that many have provided copious amounts of scripture to show him that his position is a graceless, merit-based means of salvation that is contrary to the gospel of Jesus Christ. At this point every believer on this board should be ignoring Van as he is unrepentant in his false teaching regarding the gracious choice of Jesus, the King, to save all whom the Father has given him, based only upon God's will. One should give no hearing to Van's graceless, merit-based teaching of salvation/corporate election. That teaching comes not from our King, Jesus, the Messiah.

 

"AustinC,

Yes he does many have suggested the same thing.

This also is true, and factual.

Only a few read such posts out of morbid curiosity.

You can read it, think completely opposite and see truth.

 

I'm sure that anything you disagree with is because of your philosophy Twisted as it is. Calvinism is false and you have blinded your self from the truth. The truth has been presented to you by many posters on this board and this is when you put your blinders on.You could fall in a ditch if your not careful.
MB

 

This is interesting Calvinist read scripture while thinking the opposite. No wonder you get it backwards all the time.
MB

 

6 And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name Loruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away.

7 But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the Lord their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.

8 Now when she had weaned Loruhamah, she conceived, and bare a son.

9 Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.

10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

Mt.Henry;
It is certain that this promise had its accomplishment in the setting up of the kingdom of Christ, by the preaching of the gospel, and the bringing in both of Jews and Gentiles to it, for to this these words are applied by St. Paul (Rom. 9:25, Rom. 9:26 ), and by St. Peter when he writes to the Jews of the dispersion, 1 Pt. 2:10 . Israel here is the gospel-church, the spiritual Israel (Gal. 6:16 ), all believers who follow the steps, and inherit the blessing of faithful Abraham, who is the father of all that believe, whether Jews or Gentiles, Rom. 4:11, Rom. 4:12 . Now let us see what is promised concerning this Israel.

 

pt2:mt.henry;

(1.) That it shall greatly multiply, and the numbers of it be increased; it shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered. Though Israel according to the flesh be diminished and made few, the spiritual Israel shall be numerous, shall be innumerable. In the vast multitudes that by the preaching of the gospel have been brought to Christ, both in the first ages of Christianity and ever since, this promise is fulfilled, thousands out of every tribe in Israel, and out of other nations, a multitude which no man can number, Rev. 7:4, Rev. 7:9 ; Gal. 4:27 . In this the promise made to Abraham, when God called him Abraham the high father of a multitude, had its full accomplishment (Gen. 17:5 ), and that Gen. 22:17 . Some observe that they are here compared to the sand of the sea, not only for their numbers, but as the sand of the sea serves for a boundary to the waters, that they shall not overflow the earth, so the Israelites indeed are a wall of defence to the places where they live, to keep off judgments. God can do nothing against Sodom while Lot is there.(2.) That God will renew his covenant with the gospel-Israel, and will incorporate it a church to himself, by as full and ample a charter as that whereby the Old-Testament church was incorporated; nay, and its privileges shall be much greater:

"In the place where it was said unto them, You are not my people, there shall you be again admitted into covenant, and owned as my people.’’ The abandoned Gentiles in their respective places, and the rejected Jews in theirs, shall be favoured and blessed. There, where the fathers were cast off for their unbelief, the children, upon their believing, shall be taken in. This is a blessed resurrection, the making of those the people of God that were not a people. Nay, but the privilege is enlarged; now it is not only, You are my people, as formerly, but You are the sons of the living God, whether by birth you were Jews or Gentiles. Israel under the law was God’s son, his first-born, but then they were as children under age; now, under the gospel, they have grown up both to greater understanding and greater liberty, Gal. 4:1, Gal. 4:2 . Note, [1.] It is the unspeakable privilege of all believers that they have the living God for their Father, the ever-living God, and may look upon themselves as his children by grace and adoption. [2.] The sonship of believers shall be owned and acknowledged; it shall be said to them, for their comfort and satisfaction, nay, and it shall be said for their honour in the hearing of the world, You are the sons of the living God. Let not the saints disquiet themselves; let not others despise them; for, sooner or later, there shall be a manifestation of the children of God, and all the world shall be made to know their excellency and the value God has for them.

 

pt.3 Mt. Henry;
[3.] It will add much to their comfort, very much to their honour, when they are dignified with the tokens of God’s favour in that very place where they had long lain under the tokens of his displeasure. This speaks comfort to the believing Gentiles, that they need not go up to Jerusalem, to be received and owned as God’s children; no, they may stay where they are, and in that place, though it be in the remotest corner of the earth, in that place where they were at a distance, where it was said to them, "You are not God’s people,’’ but are separated from them (Isa. 56:3, Isa. 56:6 ), even there, without leaving their country and kindred, they may by faith receive the Spirit of adoption, witnessing with their spirits that "they are the children of God.’’

(3.) That those who had been at variance should be happily brought together (v. 11): Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together. This uniting of Judah and Israel, those two kingdoms that were now so much at variance, biting and devouring one another, is mentioned only as a specimen, or one instance, of the happy effect of the setting up of Christ’s kingdom in the world, the bringing of those that had been at the greatest enmity one against another to a good understanding one of another and a good affection one to another. This was literally fulfilled when the Galileans, who inhabited that part of the country which belonged to the ten tribes, and probably for the most part descended from them, so heartily joined with those that were probably called Jews (that were of Judea) in following Christ and embracing his gospel; and his first disciples were partly Jews and partly Galileans.
The first that were blessed with the light of the gospel were of the land of Zebulun and Naphtali (Mt. 4:15 ); and, though there was no good-will at all between the Jews and the Galileans, yet, upon their believing in Christ, they were happily consolidated, and there were no remains of the former disaffection they had to one another; nay, when the Samaritans believed, though between them and the Jews there was a much greater enmity, yet in Christ there was a perfect unanimity, Acts. 8:14 . Thus Judah and Israel were gathered together; yet this was but a type of the much more celebrated coalition between Jews and Gentiles, when, by the death of Christ, the partition-wall of the ceremonial law was taken down. See Eph. 2:14-16 . Christ died, to gather together in one all the children of God that were scattered abroad, Jn. 11:51 ; Eph. 1:10 .(4.)

That Jesus Christ should be the centre of unity to all God’s spiritual Israel. It is certain that this promise had its accomplishment in the setting up of the kingdom of Christ, by the preaching of the gospel, and the bringing in both of Jews and Gentiles to it, for to this these words are applied by St. Paul (Rom. 9:25, Rom. 9:26 ), and by St. Peter when he writes to the Jews of the dispersion, 1 Pt. 2:10 . Israel here is the gospel-church, the spiritual Israel (Gal. 6:16 ), all believers who follow the steps, and inherit the blessing of faithful Abraham, who is the father of all that believe, whether Jews or Gentiles, Rom. 4:11, Rom. 4:12 . Now let us see what is promised concerning this Israel.(1.) That it shall greatly multiply, and the numbers of it be increased; it shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered. Though Israel according to the flesh be diminished and made few, the spiritual Israel shall be numerous, shall be innumerable. In the vast multitudes that by the preaching of the gospel have been brought to Christ, both in the first ages of Christianity and ever since, this promise is fulfilled, thousands out of every tribe in Israel, and out of other nations, a multitude which no man can number, Rev. 7:4, Rev. 7:9 ; Gal. 4:27 . In this the promise made to Abraham, when God called him Abraham the high father of a multitude, had its full accomplishment (Gen. 17:5 ), and that Gen. 22:17 .

Some observe that they are here compared to the sand of the sea, not only for their numbers, but as the sand of the sea serves for a boundary to the waters, that they shall not overflow the earth, so the Israelites indeed are a wall of defence to the places where they live, to keep off judgments. God can do nothing against Sodom while Lot is there.(2.) That God will renew his covenant with the gospel-Israel, and will incorporate it a church to himself, by as full and ample a charter as that whereby the Old-Testament church was incorporated; nay, and its privileges shall be much greater: "In the place where it was said unto them, You are not my people, there shall you be again admitted into covenant, and owned as my people.’’ The abandoned Gentiles in their respective places, and the rejected Jews in theirs, shall be favoured and blessed. There, where the fathers were cast off for their unbelief, the children, upon their believing, shall be taken in. This is a blessed resurrection, the making of those the people of God that were not a people. Nay, but the privilege is enlarged; now it is not only, You are my people, as formerly, but You are the sons of the living God, whether by birth you were Jews or Gentiles. Israel under the law was God’s son, his first-born, but then they were as children under age; now, under the gospel, they have grown up both to greater understanding and greater liberty, Gal. 4:1, Gal. 4:2 . Note, [1.] It is the unspeakable privilege of all believers that they have the living God for their Father, the ever-living God, and may look upon themselves as his children by grace and adoption. [2.] The sonship of believers shall be owned and acknowledged; it shall be said to them, for their comfort and satisfaction, nay, and it shall be said for their honour in the hearing of the world, You are the sons of the living God. Let not the saints disquiet themselves; let not others despise them; for, sooner or later, there shall be a manifestation of the children of God, and all the world shall be made to know their excellency and the value God has for them. [3.] It will add much to their comfort, very much to their honour, when they are dignified with the tokens of God’s favour in that very place where they had long lain under the tokens of his displeasure. This speaks comfort to the believing Gentiles, that they need not go up to Jerusalem, to be received and owned as God’s children; no, they may stay where they are, and in that place, though it be in the remotest corner of the earth, in that place where they were at a distance, where it was said to them, "You are not God’s people,’’ but are separated from them (Isa. 56:3, Isa. 56:6 ), even there, without leaving their country and kindred, they may by faith receive the Spirit of adoption, witnessing with their spirits that "they are the children of God.’’

 

No Calvinists read scripture as they are, with understanding. We read your posts and others who resist truth, as opposites...you cannot even comment on a post correctly, much less scriptural points.

 

Or...actual biblical scholarship in place of your twaddle, as clearly 1Pet 2 is a mystery you cannot grasp as of yet. Mt. Henry can teach you truth.

 

No attack at all.Just reading the error of you and MB. We address the posted error from you calling truth fiction, no biblical support. We answer...in this case...the well respected Matthew Henry, you see it as a personal attack???go figure.

 

Ironically, it is you who brings up Calvinism, not me.

 

That is not the biblical usage.

 

You added words to the passage in post#14 to support your doctrine. You stated not being open to God’s word is the cause of not being of His sheep. Jesus did not say that.

I don’t have to add words (or ignore words) to the passage to support my doctrine.

Jesus said “you do not believe because you are not of my sheep”. That is simply stated. Don’t add words, just believe what Jesus said.

You are unable to embrace the truth of that statement because it undermines your preferred doctrine.

Since I had no “preferred doctrine” when I first read this passage, I simply accepted what I read as God’s Word.

I think we are close to talking past each other.

Thanks for the conversation

peace to you