Reconciliation

[Van]

Your OP has been addressed. Your definitions have been corrected and your interpretations addressed and reproved. You keep returning to your own vomit.

Yet another you, you, you post, comprised of bogus claims, posted to obfuscate.

 

[Van]

Jesus did not say that. You added that as an explanation.

First the false charge, then the fact is admitted I only provided an explanation for "of My sheep." What a waste of post after post.

 

[Van]

You are correct. I misquoted you. Apologies.

It is Matthew 7:23 where Jesus tells those trying to get into heaven, claiming all the good works they had done in His name, that He never knew them and casts them out.

peace to you

Behold the gibberish needed to obfuscate the fact Calvinism is unbiblical.
1) Jesus says there were entering, not trying to get into.
2) The people of Matthew 23:13 make no claim of good works
3) Jesus does not say He casts them out, He says they were prevented by false teachers from going in.

Obviously the effort is just to post nonsense to derail discussion of what is wrong with Particular Reconciliation and what is right with General Reconciliation. See post #57 for an actually factual presentation of biblical truth.

 

[canadyjd]

First the false charge, then the fact is admitted I only provided an explanation for "of My sheep." What a waste of post after post.

Your explanation of the “cause” of not being “of My sheep” fundamentally changes the meaning of the words of our Lord Jesus Christ found in the passage. That is the truth.

You are correct, however, it is a waste of effort to attempt to engage you in meaningful conversation.

I’ll leave you to it.

peace to you

 

[Van]

Your explanation of the “cause” of not being “of My sheep” fundamentally changes the meaning of the words of our Lord Jesus Christ found in the passage. That is the truth.

You are correct, however, it is a waste of effort to attempt to engage you in meaningful conversation.

I’ll leave you to it.

peace to you

Yet another false charge, I did not change the meaning of "of My sheep." I provided one that differs from Calvinism's disinformation that "of My sheep" means those belonging to Christ already.

 

[Van]

John 10:16 contains a different but similar phrase "of this fold" which in the negative, not of this fold, refers to others that are not the same source as those who were the source of "this fold." The idea may be that Jesus reference to those "not of this fold" were Gentiles, and those of this fold are Jews. Once God places us into Christ, and we are born anew, we become one fold.

 

[AustinC]

Yet another you, you, you post, comprised of bogus claims, posted to obfuscate.

Yet another "Van is the victim" response in which bogus claims are posted to obfuscate and deflect...

 

[Van]

Jesus never says those men did not believe because they were not His Sheep. That is a perversion. The NASB reads "of My Sheep" (John 10:26) and the Greek word translated "of" is "ek" which in this usage refers to the source from which His sheep come, i.e. people open to God's word, the people that comprise the fields white for harvest. (John 4:35)

What could turn a person into "not of His sheep?" Buying into false doctrine would predispose a person to reject actual true biblical doctrine. Thus the Pharisees, believing their human interpretation of God's word rejected the teachings of Jesus.
As ambassadors of Christ, when we beg others to be reconciled, the idea is that they would embrace the gospel of Christ, because any other gospel would prevent those seeking salvation from entering. See Matthew 23:13

 

[canadyjd]

Yet another false charge, I did not change the meaning of "of My sheep." I provided one that differs from Calvinism's disinformation that "of My sheep" means those belonging to Christ already.

Thanks for the conversation

peace to you

 

[SavedByGrace]

Jesus said He knows His sheep and calls them by name (a specific call to individuals, not a general call)

Jesus said His sheep hear His voice and will follow Him. (irresistible grace) He lays down His life for His sheep (limited atonement) He will not lose even one and will raise all of them up on the final day (perseverance of the saints)

Jesus tells certain religious men they do not believe because they are not His sheep. He doesn’t say they are not His sheep because they do not believe, He says they don’t believe because they are not His sheep. (Total depravity)

peace to you

this is what is known as "reformed theology", and most of it is unbiblical!

 

[canadyjd]

this is what is known as "reformed theology", and most of it is unbiblical!

I quoted the words of Jesus Christ found in scripture.

Your response is that the words of Jesus Christ found in scripture are unbiblical.

It is not possible to have a meaningful conversation with someone who claims the words of our Lord Jesus Christ found in scripture are unbiblical.

peace to you

 

[SavedByGrace]

I quoted the words of Jesus Christ found in scripture.

Your response is that the words of Jesus Christ found in scripture are unbiblical.

It is not possible to have a meaningful conversation with someone who claims the words of our Lord Jesus Christ found in scripture are unbiblical.

peace to you

you have MISQUOTED and MISREPRESENTED what the Bible says, and added your reformed theology to it! I have said this many times before, I ask any reformed person to prove their 5 Points of Calvinism from John 3:13-18. This little passage destroys TULI from TULIP! Prove me wrong.

 

[MB]

Total Depravity. Unconditional election. Limited atonement. Irresistible Grace. Perseverance of the saints. are not even mentioned. They have to be talked about in scripture before these things can be said to be scriptural. This is why you don't have a leg to stand on in scripture.The concept is in your head.
MB

 

[SavedByGrace]

Total Depravity. Unconditional election. Limited atonement. Irresistible Grace. Perseverance of the saints. are not even mentioned. They have to be talked about in scripture before these things can be said to be scriptural. This is why you don't have a leg to stand on in scripture.The concept is in your head.
MB

if this is for me, then I suggest that you look at #2, to which I have been discussing with that person!

 

[canadyjd]

you have MISQUOTED and MISREPRESENTED what the Bible says, and added your reformed theology to it! I have said this many times before, I ask any reformed person to prove their 5 Points of Calvinism from John 3:13-18. This little passage destroys TULI from TULIP! Prove me wrong.

I quoted the words of Jesus Christ found in scripture and in the context Jesus said them.You claim the words of Jesus found in scripture are unbiblical.

John 3:13-18 do not contain the entire biblical teaching on God’s relationship to His people. I’d rather understand scripture in its entirety instead of just 5 verses.

peace to you

 

[SavedByGrace]

2) Christ came and died for mankind in general (no one has an excuse)

so there will be those who Christ has died for, who will be in hell??? This shows beyond any doubt, the utter nonsense of this theology!

 

[SavedByGrace]

I quoted the words of Jesus Christ found in scripture and in the context Jesus said them.You claim the words of Jesus found in scripture are unbiblical.

John 3:13-18 do not contain the entire biblical teaching on God’s relationship to His people. I’d rather understand scripture in its entirety instead of just 5 verses.

peace to you

As this passage clearly does teach that Jesus Christ died for the entire human race; then the first 4 in TULIP are FALSE, to anyone who is not deceived by reformed nonsense!

 

[MB]

if this is for me, then I suggest that you look at #2, to which I have been discussing with that person!

I've read the whole thread. It's really sad to see such a deception. Canadyjd may actually see what he claims even though it isn't there . It is called deception. He actually may not know he is deceived and is convinced we don't know what we are talking about. This is why it's so hard to get them to see the truth.Deception is a condition of the heart They want it to be true so bad.
MB

 

[SavedByGrace]

I've read the whole thread. It's really sad to see such a deception. Canadyjd may actually see what he claims even though it isn't there . It is called deception. He actually may not know he is deceived and is convinced we don't know what we are talking about. This is why it's so hard to get them to see the truth.Deception is a condition of the heart They want it to be true so bad.
MB

The person you refer to is a she

 

[thomas15]

Good to see the Calvinistic cut and pasters are busy cutting and pasting.

Here is the logic:

Israel, in times of old, was an elect nation containing believers and unbelievers.

Because of national disobedience, God, who by the way hates divorce, divorced Israel.

The Christian Church is then launched comprised of believing Jew and Gentile.

The Gentile contingent of the Church decides that the elect are no longer comprised of a nation or those who associate with the Church or individuals set aside for service, or even individuals that believe in Christ, but rather individuals who won the salvation lottery from before the times of old. Believe in your heart that Christ died according to the Scriptures, was buried and rose according to the Scriptures all you want, if you are not of the elect, it is all a waste of time.

The Gentile contingent of the Church goes further in declaring that the nation of Israel in times of old is actually code for the Gentile Church in this present age. The confused OT prophets incorrectly predicted that God will restore Israel in the future for "His names sake". The Church will grow and grow finally overcoming the evil on planet earth, when the Lord returns He will find faith on the earth aplenty. Satin is chained in the pit and is powerless to have an effect on anything in a practical sense.

The idea that the Church today is giving God a bad reputation among the nations is an invention of misguided individuals that take the words of the OT far too literal. Detailed covenants given to the Sons of Abraham are stripped of their provisions and become a catchall to describe individual forgiveness of sins and eternal life to those of the elect.

God has changed tactics, in times of old he judged the entire nation Israel for the sins of individuals, today, by the doctrines of grace, he allows the church which is full to the brim with sin and disobedient individuals to decide for themselves who is of the elect, spared from judgement based on the elect members personal theology which excludes anything other than reformed augustinian/calvinistic thinking.