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Defending Biblical Dispensational Teaching. What Are Your Questions
- Thread starter JD731
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3) above
Gentiles were saved in the OT
Rahab
Ninevah
Gentiles were saved in the OT
Rahab
Ninevah
You are shooting from the hip.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
According to Ephesians, the work of Jesus on the cross accomplished several things. The two groups, Jews and Gentiles, were brought together to form one “new man”. Peace was established between both groups. Both groups now have access to the Father through the Spirit. The OT Law is abolished.
For there to be a separate future for Jews and Gentiles the work of Jesus on the cross must be undone.
This is my question: Do you believe it is possible for the work of the cross to be undone?
My second question concerns unfulfilled prophecy. Jesus said He came to fulfill the law and the prophets.
Do you believe Jesus failed in His purpose to fulfill all the prophets foretold? If so, which prophecies, specifically, did Jesus fail to fulfill?
peace to you
Are you speaking of the EARTHLY future, or the ULTIMATE future?
Israel no longer as a nation as the Covenant relationship with God, correct?
In the Millennium though will be in the messianic Age, so why the need then?
Were part of the redeemed of God!
Dispensationally speaking to all my anti dispensational friends:
The operative principle of God's dealing with Israel before the cross and resurrection of Jesus Christ was the law of Moses. Some people among you say that some of Israel were saved during those days. If that is true then one must redefine what Paul said about the law of Moses in the letter to the Galatians. Read it here.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
So, answer the question. Did Israel have righteousness that God requires while they were under the operative principle of the Mosaic Law before Jesus Christ came? Why would Christ have died for someone if they could have been saved by doing something themselves, like keeping the law?
Does the text say why the law was was made the operative principle of divine dealing with the nation of Israel before Jesus came? Yes it does.
In the next quote we will learn what is the new operative principle of divine dealing and how it extends to all men, not just Israel.
3 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
After what?
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
The lesson the law taught is that no one could keep it except Jesus Christ, the Son of God and we all are condemned by the law, even though the law is good.
Anyone can come to these verses and conclude with logic what argument the apostle is making. God has changed the principle of divine dealing after Christ has come and kept the law perfectly and then given us life through his death for us. Anyone believing and trusting in him will have the promise of God of the Spirit of Christ, who is life, to indwell them forever, as he indwelt the body of Christ.
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
The promise in this verse is the Spirit, who is the life of God. The person who teaches that the Spirit was given to men as a permanent member of their being in the OT, whether Jew or gentile is making void the reason for the death and resurrection of Christ and stripping him of his glory and is claiming eternal life can come some other way besides through him.
Believers in the OT were justified by their faith in what God said to them and God substituted their faith for righteousness but men were not cleared of sins until Jesus Christ came and shed his blood for us.
Re 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
I do not know why men such as some on here would agree to rob Jesus Christ of his glory by failing to read and reason and use logic and make up doctrines that cannot be proven by the scriptures. There is safety in believing the words of scriptures and understanding context.
Dispensational truth is the only truth that makes sense in the scriptures.
The operative principle of God's dealing with Israel before the cross and resurrection of Jesus Christ was the law of Moses. Some people among you say that some of Israel were saved during those days. If that is true then one must redefine what Paul said about the law of Moses in the letter to the Galatians. Read it here.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
So, answer the question. Did Israel have righteousness that God requires while they were under the operative principle of the Mosaic Law before Jesus Christ came? Why would Christ have died for someone if they could have been saved by doing something themselves, like keeping the law?
Does the text say why the law was was made the operative principle of divine dealing with the nation of Israel before Jesus came? Yes it does.
In the next quote we will learn what is the new operative principle of divine dealing and how it extends to all men, not just Israel.
3 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
After what?
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
The lesson the law taught is that no one could keep it except Jesus Christ, the Son of God and we all are condemned by the law, even though the law is good.
Anyone can come to these verses and conclude with logic what argument the apostle is making. God has changed the principle of divine dealing after Christ has come and kept the law perfectly and then given us life through his death for us. Anyone believing and trusting in him will have the promise of God of the Spirit of Christ, who is life, to indwell them forever, as he indwelt the body of Christ.
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
The promise in this verse is the Spirit, who is the life of God. The person who teaches that the Spirit was given to men as a permanent member of their being in the OT, whether Jew or gentile is making void the reason for the death and resurrection of Christ and stripping him of his glory and is claiming eternal life can come some other way besides through him.
Believers in the OT were justified by their faith in what God said to them and God substituted their faith for righteousness but men were not cleared of sins until Jesus Christ came and shed his blood for us.
Re 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
I do not know why men such as some on here would agree to rob Jesus Christ of his glory by failing to read and reason and use logic and make up doctrines that cannot be proven by the scriptures. There is safety in believing the words of scriptures and understanding context.
Dispensational truth is the only truth that makes sense in the scriptures.
It was to show unity. That the HS was given to both Jews and Gentiles. To prevent separation of Gentiles and Jews. Ie we are one in Christ
So, answer the question. Did Israel have righteousness that God requires while they were under the operative principle of the Mosaic Law before Jesus Christ came?
they were saved by Faith. See a Abraham and Hebrews 11
Why would Christ have died for someone if they could have been saved by doing something themselves, like keeping the law?
no one that I know says that we are saved by keeping the Law. That’s a dispensationalist argument. OT were saved looking forward to the Messiah NT we look back to Christ
they were saved by Faith. See a Abraham and Hebrews 11
Why would Christ have died for someone if they could have been saved by doing something themselves, like keeping the law?
no one that I know says that we are saved by keeping the Law. That’s a dispensationalist argument. OT were saved looking forward to the Messiah NT we look back to Christ
Read carefully. Jesus came to fulfill the law and the prophets, he said, he did not say he fulfilled them. Fulfilling the law and the prophets demanded that Israel repent and receive him as the promised Messiah and king of Israel, which they refused to do. Have you not ever read the gospel account of the earthly ministry of Jesus Christ and how John the Baptist called on Judah to repent because the Lamb of God had come into the world and the Kindom of heaven was AT HAND. what does "at hand" mean to you. Well, I know what it meant to the Scribes and Pharisees. It meant they were about to lose their exalted standing and they refused to repent. They led the people to reject Jesus and they crucified him for claiming to be their king.
He preached the kingdom message and not the death, burial, and resurrection message and at the end of of a 3 1/2 year preaching event not a single ione of his fellow preachers knew anything about him dying in Jerusalem and were confused when he began to tell them about 6 weeks before his crucifixion. Here is one account of their confusion.
Mark 9:9 And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead. 10 And they kept that saying with themselves, questioning one with another what the rising from the dead should mean.
9:31 For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day. 32 But they understood not that saying, and were afraid to ask him.
Jesus Christ preached the gospel of the kingdom when he came to the earth. He preached only to Israel because the prophets said he will establish a kingdom in righteousness and men must be born again through faith in his death and resurrection to enter into it, or to even see or percieve it.
If I were prone to not be able to perceive it, I would be checking up to see if I were born again.
Dispensational theology is the only thing that makes sense.
Jesus fulfilled the Law of God fully, so that the Mosaic Law and Covenant could now be replaced by new One!
You continually make statements that makes no logical sense and one wonders where are you getting this. The above doctrine is not even hinted at in scripture.
Who do you think that is over in Palestine today?
Exodus 19:6
And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
They are holy because they are a chosen nation. They are a peculiar people, and when Peter spoke this to them they were strangers in five provinces of what is now Turkey.
1 Peter 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
A stranger is someone who is out of their land and wandering around in someone elses.
What impact are these circumcised strangers having on the populace?
1 Peter 2:12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.
These strangers are the scattered 10 tribes that Hosea the prophet addressed in his prophecy 700 years before. They are the elect because they have believed Paul and Peter and the apostles and prophets who preached Jesus to them and now they have the Holy Spirit in them because they believed and have been set apart for God because of it.
Dispensational theology is the only thing that makes sense. BTW, Peter wrote this some 35 years after Jesus died and was buried and rose again.
timtofly
Well-Known Member
No one could teach a Second Coming. It is not defined in Revelation. Armageddon is not the Second Coming. Armageddon is the end of 42 months given to Satan as Steward of the vineyard. Why would the early church teach they failed, and Satan was given the vineyard for 42 months, and then the Second Coming? No one knows the timing of Second Coming, and any who claim that Armageddon is the Second Coming is deceiving themselves.
The problem is the Second Coming and rapture are pre-trib. Trying to define the trib itself ended up giving us post, pre, and even 7 years. No 7 year trib taught either. Armageddon is a return, but not the Second Coming. The Second Coming happens prior to Satan allowed to do anything. The Lord of the vineyard will come and remove the vineyard from the church and hand it to another. Or the church will repent, and have a golden harvest and the Second Coming will not be the Lord handing the vineyard over to Satan. Either way, the Second Coming is the final harvest as Jesus taught many times in the Gospels. This is the Trumpets and Thunders, John writes about in Revelation. John is revealing the affects of this harvest.
Please clarify. Are you saying there were no children of God among the Gentiles prior to AD 40?
You write a lot like @John of Japan. You're not him are you?
Nope, he ain't me. In fact, he got really upset with me once, and I suspect he put me on "Ignore" some time ago.
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