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Must justification be proven by sanctification?

G

Guido

Active Member
According to the scriptures, upon one’s faith in Christ and the gospel, a person is justified, escaping eternal condemnation, and receiving eternal life. Although the claim by some is, that a person, once being justified, is then necessarily increasingly sanctified, resulting in their sin being lessened over time, I, having heard sermons, and read commentaries, believe contrary to this view, though the first three gospels, the general epistles, and the Book of Revelation seem to support it, according to an improper reading of those books.

What is your opinion?
 
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Dave G

Dave G

Well-Known Member
Guido said:
According to the scriptures, upon one’s faith in Christ and the gospel, a person is justified, escaping eternal condemnation, and receiving eternal life.
Click to expand...
The way I understand the Scriptures, a person was justified ( made "just"... free from sin, its effects and guilt in the sight of the Lord ) at the cross ( Romans 5:6-11, Colossians 2:13-14 ), not when they believed on Christ.
Their faith is the evidence ( Hebrews 11:1 ), or reflection of God's justifying them because of His grace and mercy through His Son's work on their behalf.

Essentially I see salvation and the corresponding gifts of faith, repentance, eternal life and other blessings and promises,
being an independent work of God upon the objects of His grace in which the Lord is not dependent upon our responses ( or efforts ) in order to work His miracle of grace upon us.
 
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Dave G

Dave G

Well-Known Member
Guido said:
Although the claim by some is, that a person, once being justified, is then necessarily increasingly sanctified, resulting in their sin being lessened over time, I, having heard sermons, and read commentaries, believe contrary to this view, though the first three gospels, the general epistles, and the Book of Revelation seem to support it, according to an improper reading of those books.

What is your opinion?
Click to expand...
Romans 8 states:

" But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. " ( Romans 8:9-13 ).

Notwithstanding the Late Middle English of the AV, this tells me that as a believer, not only has God made me alive in my spirit ( Psalm 80:18, John 5:21, Romans 4:17, Ephesians 2:1-5, 1 Timothy 6:13 ), but is making me alive in my body as well;
To the point that if I walk in the Spirit, I will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh ( Galatians 5:16 ).

To answer your thread, I see the Scriptures teaching that a believer grows in both knowledge and grace from a carnal "man" ( 1 Corinthians 3:1-3 ) that walks as natural men do, to a "spiritual" man that does not ( 1 Peter 2:2, 2 Peter 3:18 ), going from children, to young men, to "fathers" ( 1 John 2:1-14 ).

In other words,

We as God's children grow in our knowledge and understanding of the Scriptures, and we also grow in our stature or "person" from being less like Christ to more like Christ.
Our sin becomes less and less, and we put off the things of the flesh that surround the spirit that God has made alive through the new birth, or our being "born again" through the Spirit.

While we may never be completely free of sin until after this life, our sin is lessened over time by the power of the Holy Spirit that lives within each and every one of us.
 
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V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Guido said:
According to the scriptures, upon one’s faith in Christ and the gospel, a person is justified, escaping eternal condemnation, and receiving eternal life. Although the claim by some is, that a person, once being justified, is then necessarily increasingly sanctified, resulting in their sin being lessened over time, I, having heard sermons, and read commentaries, believe contrary to this view, though the first three gospels, the general epistles, and the Book of Revelation seem to support it, according to an improper reading of those books.

What is your opinion?
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My opinion is that scriptures do not teach that "upon one's faith in Christ and the gospel, a person is justified..."
The folks of Matthew 7 said "Lord, Lord" and were active in ministry, yet their "faith" did not result in their justification. It is only after God places a person spiritually into Christ, the sanctification by the Holy Spirit, are they made righteous, justified and indwelt.
 
G

Guido

Active Member
Dave G said:
Romans 8 states:

" But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. " ( Romans 8:9-13 ).

Notwithstanding the Late Middle English of the AV, this tells me that as a believer, not only has God made me alive in my spirit ( Psalm 80:18, John 5:21, Romans 4:17, Ephesians 2:1-5, 1 Timothy 6:13 ), but is making me alive in my body as well;
To the point that if I walk in the Spirit, I will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh ( Galatians 5:16 ).

To answer your thread, I see the Scriptures teaching that a believer grows in both knowledge and grace from a carnal "man" ( 1 Corinthians 3:1-3 ) that walks as natural men do, to a "spiritual" man that does not ( 1 Peter 2:2, 2 Peter 3:18 ), going from children, to young men, to "fathers" ( 1 John 2:1-14 ).

In other words,

We as God's children grow in our knowledge and understanding of the Scriptures, and we also grow in our stature or "person" from being less like Christ to more like Christ.
Our sin becomes less and less, and we put off the things of the flesh that surround the spirit that God has made alive through the new birth, or our being "born again" through the Spirit.

While we may never be completely free of sin until after this life, our sin is lessened over time by the power of the Holy Spirit that lives within each and every one of us.
Click to expand...

So then, if Romans says that we as Christians must be becoming like Christ, and that without our becoming like Christ we are not truly saved, how does it agree in any point with free grace, which teaches that works do not merit or prove salvation?
 
G

Guido

Active Member
Okay, let me just say this. I want to believe the correct doctrine, which may be that all believers are sanctified over time, but I fear that if I believe this, I will not be fully trusting the finished work of Christ, but adding works to the gospel.

Can someone please help me with this?
 
M

Martin Marprelate

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Guido said:
Okay, let me just say this. I want to believe the correct doctrine, which may be that all believers are sanctified over time, but I fear that if I believe this, I will not be fully trusting the finished work of Christ, but adding works to the gospel.

Can someone please help me with this?
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Guido,
If someone is saved, God has given him new birth (e.g. ! Peter 1:3) No one can be saved without being born anew (John 3:3-5). Part of this new birth is that God's righteous moral law, instead of being written on stone tablets, is written on our minds and on our hearts (Jeremiah 31:33; Hebrews 10:15-17). Therefore we say with the Psalmist, "I delight to do your will, O my God, and Your law is within my heart" (Psalms 40:8).
When a child is born who bears no likeness whatsoever to his father, eyebrows tend to be raised and earnest questions asked. If someone claims to have been born of God when there is nothing in his life but sin and carnality, what evidence is there that he is God's true child? Will not such a person hear Christ say, "Depart from Me, you who practise lawlessness!" and "You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do."?
There remains within us a relic of our old unredeemed nature, which we are to put to death (Romans 6:12; Colossians 3:5). We shall never fully succeed in doing this until we are in glory, but it will be our earnest desire.

So, we are justified solely by grace through faith; but God does not leave us at that point; He gives us the Holy Spirit who will lead us into righteousness. 'But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His' (Romans 8:9).

I know there are some people on this board who disagree with this teaching, so please read the Scripture proofs that I have given to see if this doctrine is true.

Here is an article that I wrote some years ago on this subject: New Birth (9). Evidences of the New Birth
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Guido said:
Must justification be proven by sanctification?

What is your opinion?
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Sanctification precedes justification.
1 Peter 1:2 and 2 Thessalonians 2:13. And the lost reject that sanctification, Hebrews 10:29.
 
Dave G

Dave G

Well-Known Member
Guido said:
So then, if Romans says that we as Christians must be becoming like Christ, and that without our becoming like Christ we are not truly saved, how does it agree in any point with free grace, which teaches that works do not merit or prove salvation?
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Romans does say that we as believers will grow to be more like Christ.
In fact, according to Romans 8:29, God predestinated His children to that very thing.

" For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. "

Therefore,
If a person does not grow spiritually to become more like Christ, then the Holy Spirit is not present within them and they are none of His ( see Romans 8 ).
@Martin Marprelate made reference to this in his post above.

As to how it agrees with free grace ( grace given freely to whomsoever the Lord chooses to have mercy and compassion on, Romans 9:14-18 ),
I see that it agrees completely;
God does all the work, start to finish, and the objects of His grace not only benefit from it, they evidence it in their lives as they grow in both knowledge and grace...
As they grow into a more perfect man:

" Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:" ( Ephesians 4:13 )


My best advice for you on this ( and many other subjects ) is to keep up your studies, Guido.
Dig into His word deeply and often, my friend.
It takes time for His word to sink in and to coalesce, and it takes time for the Lord to grow someone into the image of His Son.;)


May God bless you in many ways.:)
 
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Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Dave G said:
The way I understand the Scriptures, a person was justified ( made "just"... free from sin, its effects and guilt in the sight of the Lord ) at the cross ( Romans 5:6-11, Colossians 2:13-14 ), not when they believed on Christ.
Their faith is the evidence ( Hebrews 11:1 ), or reflection of God's justifying them because of His grace and mercy through His Son's work on their behalf.

Essentially I see salvation and the corresponding gifts of faith, repentance, eternal life and other blessings and promises,
being an independent work of God upon the objects of His grace in which the Lord is not dependent upon our responses ( or efforts ) in order to work His miracle of grace upon us.
Click to expand...

Would not your view mean that a person is born sinless? How does that happen in light of Rom 3:23?
 
G

Guido

Active Member
I don't believe that all Christians desire to do the will of God. or that all Christians will do the will of God, upon this earth. I believe that, if a Christian persists in disobedience toward God, He will discipline them.
 
G

Guido

Active Member
If you say that good works in the life of a believer are a proof that they truly are saved, you are teaching that works are required for them to be saved, a teaching contrary to lucid scriptures, which say that faith, unaccompanied by works, procure the believer salvation, who retains till he dies his sinful nature, able to walk in the flesh, commanded by Christ and all his apostles of what they should do to fulfil God's will, given to the saints without necessity if the saints should obey Him on account of regeneration.
 
M

Martin Marprelate

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Guido said:
I just want to know. True or false?: All believers change and bear fruit?
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True. All believers change and bear fruit. Romans 6:15-18; 1 Corinthians 6:9-11.
Note also Romans 8:14. 'For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.' Note this, that Paul does not say that sin ought not to have dominion, or that it would be rather nice if it didn't have dominion. He says it shall not have dominion. So if sin still has dominion in your life, why would you think that you are under grace rather than under law?
 
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