Featured The flaws of the KVJ

This deceiver says the flaws presented are not flaws. Then claims I offered nothing to substantiate that claim.
Truth has no meaning for these posters. Two horns means one horn. Unicorn means wild ox. Through faith means through Him. Every flaw will be said to be a non-flaw. This is all they have folks, denial of the obvious....

 

Now he switched pictures!!!!! There appears to be no bottom...

 

I don't believe anyone here will mistake me for a KJVO, but i don't believe the KJV is "deeply flawed". Sure, it has goofs & booboos, same as any other Bible translation, but that's because it, & all other translations, are the products of God's perfect word being handled by imperfect men.

But as for flaws-the first, which isn't really a flaw, is its archaic English. We simply don't use it any more. That's part of why I say it's a "Model T" version, still a legitimate version, but outdated, with better translations now in use. Next comes its outright goofs, such as "Easter" in Acts 12:4, "the words "and shalt be" in Rev. 16:5 when they're not found in any known ancient manuscript, or "the love of money is THE root of ALL evil" in 1 Tim. 6:10.

Then, there are poor translations, such as "Thou shalt not KILL" in Ex. 20:13

But none of these arebad enough to cause us to throw the baby out with the bathwater & completely reject the KJV. But it IS enough to cause English readers to use a newer, better translation. (I drive a new Ford fusion, not a Model T.)

And some things that some see as flaws are actually NOT so, such as the much-maligned unicorns & satyrs. After all, when the AV was being made, a unicorn was depicted on the coats-of-arms of both King James and of Britain itself.The AV men had no reason to believe they're fictional. After all, they believed lions, also depicted on those coats-of-arms, are real, though it's unlikely any of them ever saw one.

Another non-flaw is "voice of the turtles" in Job."Turtle' was a common shortcut for "turtledove" in those days, leaving the reader to use common sense, as turtles don't fly or sing. (Only one I ever saw do either was Gamera in some of the Japanese "Godzilla " movies! LOL)

While I don't use the KJV myself except for study, along with other old English versions, it's still a legitimate version, same as a Model T is still a legitimate auto.

 

And that includes the KJVO myth.

 

Flaws are said not to substantiate... A rose by any other name...

 

LOL, no this mind reader claims he knows what I know.
Unanswered questions:
1) How many flaws does it take to be deeply flawed?
2) How many mythical animals in the KJV does it take to make the translation flawed?
3) How many times will it be claimed that non-equals are equal? Through faith = through Him, Unicorn = wild ox, etc

The KJV is deeply flawed, that is why we have the NKJV!!!

 

Mr Agedman continues to deny the obvious. The NKJV demonstrates the KJV is deeply flawed.
The use of mythical animals in the KJV demonstrates it is deeply flawed.
Translating different places as the same place demonstrates the KJV is deeply flawed.
I could list dozens of flaws and each and every one would be said to be a non-flaw.

 

There are two ways to look at the words of God, 1) literally, and 2) spiritually, because the words of the bible are intended to be both. One must accept them first as literal because God has given them to us. He gave them to us today in written form only but to some people before this time he gave them the spoken word. One must not believe that just because we have liberty to make spiritual applications of any passage in the scriptures that we are also free to ignore the literalness of the scriptures and ignore to whom they are spoken. We are charged by the scriptures themselves to rightly divide them

For instance, Jesus Christ was crucified in 30 AD but for 3.5 years before that he called Israel to repentance, reminding them of what the OT said about him, that he was fulfilling, and at the same time giving them new things that were never written anywhere. As a matter of fact he quoted some things the prophets of Israel said that were not written in the scriptures. He would know that since he gave the prophets the information.

Another for instance. Often times passages are quoted as if they are addressed specifically for us to follow them literally when they are, if fact, not addressed to us at all. You have done this in this very post I am responding to. While there are many spiritual lessons in these passages that will instruct us, none of them, with the exception of the proverbs, are addressed to us in any kind of literal way. These words were spoken to the people of Israel, and by the time they were written, probably some of the hearers would never get the opportunity to read them.

You stated this verse and then asked this question;

Jesus told the unbelievers, John 8:47, "He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God." So are some of us not yet saved as we think we are?

The answer is obvious if you understand that Jesus spoke these words to an actual assembly of Jews and Israelites, and particularly to Jewish rulers who were gathered around him that day in the temple after they had already plotted to kill him.

Jn 8:2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.
3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,

This is the crowd who did not hear his word and believe it. Look;

42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

There is no scenario ever when you, saved or lost, will fit the profile of those scribes and Pharisees to whom Jesus spoke in Jn 8. This is scripture for us but not to us but to them it is what was spoken and they never read it in print. Everything that Jesus said about them was true and every thing he said would happen to them did happen to them.

In john 6 we have an oft quoted and applied passage that is a good illustration of my point. How often have you heard this verse quoted as proof of someones special election to salvation because they were drawn by the Father to be saved? Read it.

Jn 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

This passage is no more or no less literal than the following passage. Look.

Jn 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Nobody quotes this verse as proof they are elect because we all know that no one who is alive today has seen the Son. But these guys he was speaking to has seen him.

Jn 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.

Past tense. Ye have seen me, Jesus said, but they were looking at him right then. What does he mean? These people who he was speaking to had seen him the previous day as the Bread of Life, on the mountain on the other side of the sea, when he fed the 5 thousand men plus women and children with 5 loaves and 2 fishes with 12 basketfuls left over.

There are all kinds of spiritual applications to this passage that will help us today but it was not spoken to us and no one is being asked to physically come to the person of Jesus or to see him in order to be elect and it is not teaching it is the way for gentiles to have eternal life This was for Jews of Jesus day only. It is faith in what has been revealed from God to men that justifies them at any given time in history, and if we stopped at this revelation in our faith we would not be justified because we have far more revelation since that day when Jesus spoke these words in the synagogue.

There is no doubt about this being written for us to take literally today and to obey the command.

This is true.

I learned all I have told you from a KJV. It is so easy to understand.

 

Van,
Again I encourage you to stop treating people like they are beneath you and that everyone who disagrees with you is a deceiver and purposefully trying to mislead others.

Please take this in the spirit in which it is intended...

We are to obey the Lord in matters of conduct, regardless of how we may feel about something.
If you like, I'd be happy to share the passages that this is developed in, in another thread... so we can both read them together and hopefully come to some sort of agreement with what they say.
As a Christian saved from His eternal wrath and punishment ( and strictly by His unmerited grace and mercy towards you ), wouldn't you agree?
I hope so.

In fact,
I hope that everyone here would treat one another with this firmly in mind,
especially when they take it upon themselves to present their views about any given subject.

Perhaps what is obvious to you is not obvious to him...
Wouldn't approaching him with patience and kindness do a much better job of persuasion, than your current approach is doing?

I can tell you from experience that how I say something is as equally important ( if not more so ) as what I say.

As always, I wish you well, sir.

 

Something to think about, if you find this of any value:

Did it occur to you that the word "seen" in John 6:36 and John 6:40 could be taken in the spiritual sense ( and not the literal ), as in "seeing the truth of", or " having the truth of who He is revealed to them by God",
similar to what the Lord told Peter in Matthew 11:27?:

" All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him."

or that what is stated here:

" When Jesus came into the coasts of Cæsarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. " ( Matthew 16:13-17 ).?

I only ask because that is how it strikes me when I read it for myself.

 

Far as making updated translations goes:

The first full written English Bible translation was by Wycliffe in 1382. So, why didn't Tyndale simply have it printed instead of making a whole new translation? Because God wanted His word in English updated. Many British had difficulty reading Chaucer's works or the Wycliffe Bible by that time, and Tyndale wanted to make a version that even a ploughboy could read & understand. God chose Tyndale to make the most-popular English translation of his day & he was martyred for it.

God has kept His word updated in English from Wycliffe's time onward, despite attempts to suppress it in English til Henry VIII intervened, And he's continued to do so despitre the further efforts of the RCC, certain Anglicans, and today's KJVOs.

 

So you actually think they did not know the difference between the plural רְאֵמִים֙ רֵמִ֣ים and the singular רְאֵם֙

Deuteronomy 33:17, ASV, ". . . the horns of the wild-ox: . . ." Wild-ox is singular. Now the LXX has κερατα μονοκερωτος ". . . horns of a unicorn . . . ." Unicorn in the singular.

 

Yes, you are wrong. What you need to do is read the Preface. It will enlighten you.

 

Are you as closed minded as @Van. All the treanslations of Deuteronomy 33:17 which before the KJV treanslated רְאֵם֙ as unicorn translated it as uncorn in the singular.