1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured The flaws of the KVJ

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by agedman, Aug 26, 2021.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2018
    Messages:
    5,945
    Likes Received:
    1,350
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Addressed above;
    To me this is an unintentional error on the part of people who assume that it's talking about a mythical horse with one horn...
    It's not.

    Numbers 23:22,
    Numbers 24:8,
    Deuteronomy 33:17,
    Psalms 22:21,
    Psalms 92:10 are all speaking in relation to an animal having a single horn and it being a powerful animal:

    Unicorn:
    " Middle English: via Old French from Latin unicornis, from uni- ‘single’ + cornu ‘horn’, translating Greek monokerōs ."


    "an animal mentioned in the Bible that is usually considered an aurochs, a one-horned rhinoceros, or an antelope" :
    Definition of UNICORN

    "an animal mentioned in the Bible, Deuteronomy 33:17: now believed by some to be a description of a wild ox or rhinoceros."
    Definition of unicorn | Dictionary.com

    Not a mythical animal, but a real one that existed thousands of years ago and does indeed exist even today.
    Therefore, the translation is sound ( at least to me ), given the language of the day.
    What you're persuaded of is entirely up to you, sir, but I do hope that you carefully consider the above and search it out for yourself.


    May God bless you greatly .:)
     
    #21 Dave G, Aug 28, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2021
  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,464
    Likes Received:
    1,320
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The KJV is not an interliner to the Greek. I would think you also knew this.
     
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,310
    Likes Received:
    1,109
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Hogwash to hide truth, the ancient animal was an oxen with two horns. Nobody hitched rinos to pull a heavy cart!!! And unicorn is not the only mythical animal found in the KJV!!!!
     
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,310
    Likes Received:
    1,109
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Please stop posting off topic disparagements. Did anyone claim the KJV was an interlinear? Nope.
    The issue is "through Him" or "through faith." The KJV got it wrong!!!
     
  5. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    11,023
    Likes Received:
    1,108
    Faith:
    Baptist
    This is what you consider “deeply flawed?”
     
  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,464
    Likes Received:
    1,320
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The translators delibrately misstranslated the word plural. See my Post #17
     
  7. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2018
    Messages:
    5,945
    Likes Received:
    1,350
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Van, that is my honest opinion for what it's worth.

    Also, I encourage you to stop accusing people of knowingly presenting things that are untruths in order to mislead people,
    and to stop disparaging those with which you disagree.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,310
    Likes Received:
    1,109
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I am not the one hitching rinos to carts...
    You can copy and past many efforts to claim the KJV use of unicorn was not wrong. Those efforts are twaddle.
     
  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,310
    Likes Received:
    1,109
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Once again, words are put in my mouth by this poster. Is this what he considers disinformation?
     
  10. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2020
    Messages:
    2,806
    Likes Received:
    215
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Thanks RipponRedeaux, for your comments.

    Are you saying to me that NIV translators did not purposely write their bible to be gender neutral, or gender inclusive in every instance they could? Are you saying I am wrong about that?

    Yes,It has occurred to me. Then I remember that unsaved men used to have some honor and reverence for the God of the bible and his bible, because Christians did. It was not that crowd that gave us the NIV with it's adaptation to the mores of this corrupt society, it was people who claimed they were doing something for God.

    Sinners are lost but they are not dumb. They know when they are being snookered.

    What is “sawn?”
     
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,464
    Likes Received:
    1,320
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You are claiming a mistranslation in Acts 3:16. You simply do not agree with KJV translation.
    The KJV has, ". . . through faith in his name . . . ." for ". . . επι τη πιστει του ονοματος αυτου . . . ." ". . . in His Name . . ." "of His Name."
     
  12. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2018
    Messages:
    5,945
    Likes Received:
    1,350
    Faith:
    Baptist
    " His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth:
    and they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh."


    I see nothing wrong with the translation, as it is describing an "animal" that has horns like unicorns do.
    In other words, Moses is ascribing a characteristic of a powerful animal to the tribe of Joseph.

    Here is the passage opened up a bit:

    " And of Joseph he said,
    Blessed of the Lord be his land,for the precious things of heaven, for the dew, and for the deep that coucheth beneath,
    14 and for the precious fruits brought forth by the sun, and for the precious things put forth by the moon,
    15 and for the chief things of the ancient mountains, and for the precious things of the lasting hills,
    16 and for the precious things of the earth and fulness thereof, and for the good will of him that dwelt in the bush: let the blessing come upon the head of Joseph, and upon the top of the head of him that was separated from his brethren.
    17 His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh.
    " ( Deuteronomy 33:13-17 )

    When I read the above, I see that this is Moses placing a blessing upon the person and tribe of Joseph ( from Deuteronomy 33:1 );
    that his "glory" is like the "firstling" ( the best of the herd ) of his cattle, and his "horns" are like the horns of "unicorns" ( rhinocerouses ), powerful and strong...
    With them "he" ( Joseph's tribe ) will push the people together to the ends of the earth.

    They are the 10,000's of Ephraim and the 1,000's of Manasseh, who were both, together, the sons of Joseph.

    Again, reading and understanding the text for myself and in the context of it, I see nothing wrong with the translation in any way.
    In addition, I've looked at the Hebrew and the word transliterated as " u-qrni" means, " and-horns-of".
    https://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/deu33.pdf


    Based on this, I am completely satisfied that I not only have the word of God in front of me,
    but that it is translated correctly into the English of its day;
    Even though English usage has changed over the years.



    Good morning to you.
     
    #32 Dave G, Aug 28, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2021
  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,310
    Likes Received:
    1,109
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I assume you are saying "through faith" is correct rather than "through Him." If so, both you and the KJV are wrong.

    Note the miracles of Jesus were performed by the power of the Holy Spirit. Thus the power healing the man came "through Him." Full Stop
     
  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,310
    Likes Received:
    1,109
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Note the animal pictured has TWO horns!!!!!!!!! LOL
     
  15. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    11,023
    Likes Received:
    1,108
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I was merely trying to see where in this thread you actually document the KJV as being in YOUR words, “deeply flawed” (see the OP).

    Presenting unicorns and words that anyone with a good dictionary and modicum of intelligence can discern is not demonstrating something is “deeply flawed.”
     
  16. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    707
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I think all other translations are deeply flawed when they omit the Johannine Comma. Cyprian quotes from it.

    CYPRIAN 200-258 AD. Treatises (I 5:423). "and again it Is written of the Father, and of the Son. and of the Holy Spirit, ‘And these three are one' "

    The Lord says, “I and the Father are one;”(4) and again it is written of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, “And these three are one.”(5)

    Cyprian of Carthage. (1886). On the Unity of the Church. In A. Roberts, J. Donaldson, & A. C. Coxe (Eds.), R. E. Wallis (Trans.), Fathers of the Third Century: Hippolytus, Cyprian, Novatian, Appendix (Vol. 5, p. 423). Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company.
     
  17. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,310
    Likes Received:
    1,109
    Faith:
    Baptist
    And once again, flaws are said to be, wait for it, non-flaws. Hopeless twaddle

    Note where the KJV has the mistranslation - unicorn(s), the NKJV has wild ox(en)
     
  18. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    11,023
    Likes Received:
    1,108
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Again you are wrong:
    Black rhinos, white rhinos and Sumatran rhinos have two horns. Javan rhinos and greater one-horned rhinos have one. On the black rhino, the front horn can grow to 20 to 51 inches (51 to 130 centimeters), while the rear horn can grow to about 20 inches, according to the International Rhino Foundation. A white rhino's horns are slightly smaller, and a Sumatran rhinos horns are about 10 to 31 inches (25 to 79 cm) for the front and less than 3 inches (7 cm) for the rear. The greater one-horned rhino's horn is 8 to 24 inches (20 to 61 cm), and Javan rhinos have a horn that is about 10 inches (25 cm) long. (Facts About Rhinos)

     
  19. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    11,023
    Likes Received:
    1,108
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Misdirected responce.

    “Deeply flawed”.


    That is your treatment of the KJV.

    You have offered nothing to substantiate that claim. Not even to the uneducated reader.
     
  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,310
    Likes Received:
    1,109
    Faith:
    Baptist
    More unfiltered twaddle, anyone can count the two horns (one big, one small) in the picture....
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...