37818
Well-Known Member
The noun is not used in John, but the verb from that noun is used some 86 times.
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Saved by Grace Alone, Justified by Faith Alone
- Thread starter AustinC
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Once again Romans 4:16 is said not to exist. And saved by grace through or by reason of faith is scriptural truth, Calvinism cannot nullify scripture, no matter how often the false claim is made...
Ridiculous claims no matter how often repeated remain ridiculous. First, before creation God was alone. Thus the ignorance of scripture is exposed. Second, If salvation does not depend on man, then salvation depends on God ALONE!. Did anyone say or suggest people "acquire" faith all by themselves, rather than we are drawn by the Father? Nope. Our faith comes from God's grace of revelation.
False, Romans 4 completely exists and it is important that it is completely read rather than pick a sentence out from the whole.
What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.” Is this blessing then only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? For we say that faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness. How then was it counted to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised. He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well, and to make him the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised. For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith. For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void. For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression. That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring—not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, as it is written, “I have made you the father of many nations”—in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist. In hope he believed against hope, that he should become the father of many nations, as he had been told, “So shall your offspring be.” He did not weaken in faith when he considered his own body, which was as good as dead (since he was about a hundred years old), or when he considered the barrenness of Sarah’s womb. No unbelief made him waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God, fully convinced that God was able to do what he had promised. That is why his faith was “counted to him as righteousness.” But the words “it was counted to him” were not written for his sake alone, but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord, who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.
~ Romans 4:1-25
When read in the whole we see that the emphasis is on the promise of God given to the children of the promise. Therefore, our faith is counted as righteousness because God gave us this faith in the first place.
I've never said such a thing.
It's very small of you to resort to this sort of deliberate misrepresentation of what I've posted in the past.
The fact is it's by God's grace that He writes His law in our hearts so that we may be 'doers of the law' and therefore stand justified in the judgment.
And it's very stupid of you to keep insisting that faith is the only element of our justification.
Faith does good works. Therefore we are justified by faith alone, and faith does good works. It's still just faith.
No work of our flesh justifies us.
Works are not the fruit of faith. Works and faith both are fruits of the Spirit.
Regeneration BEFORE faith, remember? Aren't you a teacher of Calvinism? Have you forgotten this very basic tenet of Calvinism?
Really? Have a read of Hebrews 11. By faith Abel did this. By faith Enoch did that. By faith Noah did the other. By faith Abraham did something else, and so on through the whole chapter.
...and the source of their faith came from where? Within themselves or from being 'born of the Spirit'?
Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
No works explicitly stated in the fruit of the Spirit, but certainly faithfulness.
Martin has already pointed to evidence that faith expresses itself in the works God ordains us to do.
Egad! Your Reformed/Calvinist brainwashing has blinded you to the simplest of terms. How does 'love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control' NOT equate to 'the law written in the heart'?
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Does the text say that the fruit of the Spirit is equated to the law written on our heart or is it simply what you infer into the text?
Again, faith does good works, therefore one can see our faith in what we do. This means we are justified by faith alone, just as Paul lays out from Romans 1 through Romans 11.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
We are not saved by faith. We are saved by God’s grace, and grace is appropriated by faith.
This is just as Eph 2:8 says but you just want to ignore that as with many other scriptures you tend to dismiss.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
There are six different aspects of justification in the NT
We are justified by grace (Tit_3:7)—that means we do not deserve it.
We are justified by faith (Rom_5:1)—that means that we have to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to receive it.
We are justified by blood (Rom_5:9)—that refers to the price the Savior paid in order that we might be justified.
We are justified by power (Rom_4:24-25)—the same power that raised the Lord Jesus from the dead.
We are justified by God (Gal 3:8)—He is the One who reckons us righteous.
We are justified by our works (Jam_2:24)—not meaning that good works earn justification, but that they are the evidence that we have been justified.
We are justified by grace (Tit_3:7)—that means we do not deserve it.
We are justified by faith (Rom_5:1)—that means that we have to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to receive it.
We are justified by blood (Rom_5:9)—that refers to the price the Savior paid in order that we might be justified.
We are justified by power (Rom_4:24-25)—the same power that raised the Lord Jesus from the dead.
We are justified by God (Gal 3:8)—He is the One who reckons us righteous.
We are justified by our works (Jam_2:24)—not meaning that good works earn justification, but that they are the evidence that we have been justified.
From the God the Holy Spirit of course. All of grace, none of self. Salvation by grace alone through faith alone.
Titus 3:4-7 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Romans 5:1-10 Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us. For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.
Romans 4:16-25 That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring—not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, as it is written, “I have made you the father of many nations”—in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist. In hope he believed against hope, that he should become the father of many nations, as he had been told, “So shall your offspring be.” He did not weaken in faith when he considered his own body, which was as good as dead (since he was about a hundred years old), or when he considered the barrenness of Sarah’s womb. No unbelief made him waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God, fully convinced that God was able to do what he had promised. That is why his faith was “counted to him as righteousness.” But the words “it was counted to him” were not written for his sake alone, but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord, who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.
Galatians 3:7-9 Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
James 2:18-26 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.
I will let these verses, surrounded by their context, speak for themselves.
Here is what appropriate means:
take (something) for one's own use, typically without the owner's permission.
We agree. We are saved by grace alone.
You say that faith takes grace for its own use, without permission. Did you mean to say that? If so, I disagree. Ephesians 2:8 does not say what you claim.
Once again the claim that "his faith" was not credited as righteousness, in direct contravention of scripture. They rewrite the text to conform to their man-centered false doctrine.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Of course we are saved by grace alone. But the means by which we appropriate {make it our own} Gods' grace is via faith. Which is just what God has said we have to do. You think God just drops faith into you after you are saved/regenerated {In theology, new birth by the grace of God} which is not biblical but is what your theology requires you to believe. So as I said I will stick with the bible.
We go by the scriptures, as they state natural persons dead in sins and transgressions have no inherit saving faith within them!
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