Soteriology 102

This reminds me of :

" But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. " ( Romans 10:19-20 ).

 

According to the Bible, Van, God chooses someone unconditionally and through their belief of the truth, for that is what it says in 2 Thessalonians 2:13 and other passages that are brought to bear on the subject.

How you keep arriving at the above, I do not know, my friend.

 

Please remember ( if I've never made you aware of it ), Van, that I'm not a "Calvinist" and never have been.
I came to Christ through His words in 1978 during a revival in an Independent Fundamental Baptist church.

Yet you keep accusing me of being one.

I am not, and I'm merely pointing out what the Scriptures say...yet it seems that you reject it.
Again, why you keep doing this, I do not know.

Acts of the Apostles 2:39,
Acts of the Apostles 2:47.
Acts of the Apostles 13:48.
Romans 8:29-30.
Psalms 65:4.
John 6:37-65.
John 17:2.
1 Corinthians 1:30.
Ephesians 1:4-5
Ephesians 1:11.
Ephesians 2:10.
1 Thessalonians 1:4.
2 Thessalonians 2:13-14.
2 Timothy 1:9.

 

@Van :

"Soteriology 101" is Jesus Christ crucified for our sins ( 1 Corinthians 15:1-7 ).
"Soteriology 102" is God saving someone by His mercy and through the efforts of His Son on their behalf ( 1 Corinthians 1:18-31 ).

All other "courses" that we find in His word on the subject, keep coming back to one thing, my friend...
Salvation is of the Lord, and not men.
Nothing that we can do, either with His assistance or without it, will ever merit us eternal life.

It's a gift ( Romans 6:23 ), not a reward for our efforts at seeking Him.

 

Amen.
Please see the rest of Romans 9 for why people are saved.

It has to do with Him loving one, and hating another ( Romans 9:13 )...
One being an object of His mercy and compassion or not ( Romans 9:14-18, Exodus 33:19 )...
One being afore prepared unto glory, and another being fitted for destruction ( Romans 9:22-24 ).

Amen again.
But a person's belief is a "work"...the work of God ( John 6:29 ), not a work of men.

Therefore, it is not a "work" in the sense of man's unworthy works that we use to gain something that we do not have...a filthy work that is as filthy rags to God because it is not His work in and through us.

I'm sorry, Van,
but to me you keep saying that believers are saved through faith ( that a believer's faith is involved ) , and then you add that God saves us because of it.
There is a difference...

As before, I think you are missing the significance of Hebrews 12:2, Hebrews 11:1, 2 Thessalonians 3:2, Ephesians 2:8, and Galatians 5:22, as examples;
And then equate salvation as a reward based on a person's belief, and not a gift of God that accompanies the gift of eternal life where people believe it because they are ordained to eternal life ( Acts of the Apostles 13:48 ), because they were given to Christ by the Father ( John 6:37-65, John 17:2 ) and because they are Christ's sheep ( John 10:26-27 ).

To me, what you are describing is not what the Bible teaches and never has been.

 

Again, I'm not a "Calvinist" and never have been.

I will keep re-iterating this as long as you keep accusing me of identifying with a man instead of with my Saviour and His every word, Van.
I do not and never have taken my understanding of God's word from men or institutions of men.

We are completely on-topic Van.
To me, it seems that you keep changing the subject in order to avoid addressing the Scriptures I've listed in disagreement with your assertions.

I'm sure many of those who read this would concur that I am disagreeing with you, and stating why.

Yes, you did.
Did I say that God's choice of the sinner to salvation is totally apart from the underlined?

Yes, as that is how I see the Scriptures stating it, and I believe that I've shown why.

 

That's the only way that He chooses them, Van.
That's how He chose Paul, for example, and then manifested Himself, through His Son, to him on the road to Damascus.

But you just said that it does ( in the first part of this quote ), by telling them that a person's "worthless dirty rag faith" is credited by God as righteousness,
instead of telling them that even their faith that God credits as righteousness is itself a gift from God.

God saving them because of something they inherently have or do, versus nothing that they have or do...
Merit versus lack of merit.

Merit is the process by which someone gains something ( a reward ) by trading something that they have, for something that they want....
Which you've just described above.

Lack of merit is the process by which gifts are given to people through no conscious effort of their own.
Do you not see that?

 

According to the Bible, Van, you are in disobedience to His word when you vilify people in the sight of others.
How you cannot see this, I do not know.

My hope is that you will re-read the Scriptures in places like Romans 12, Colossians 3, Titus 3:1-2 and others, and take them to heart.

Regardless of disagreement,
as believers we are to treat even our enemies with the kindness that the Lord has shown to us through His Son.

 

Yes, I freely admit to agreeing with the so-called "Five Points" as described here:

Calvinism and Arminianism comparison
An Outline of the FACTS of Arminianism vs. The TULIP of Calvinism

I can also find all of those "points" of "Calvinism" described and fully supported in God's word.

In some of them it is, and in others it is given in the chapters ( and in the same letters ) that those "verses" are taken from.

That said,
I'll make this my final reply to you in this thread, Van, and wish you well.

 

Which lexicon did you cite? I didn't see a citation.

 

John:36-65 shows unconditional election.