1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Does it or did it make any difference to you?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by agedman, Nov 30, 2021.

Top Posters
Page 2 of 5
  1. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    That is how it plays out.
     
    #21 1689Dave, Dec 1, 2021
  2. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,896
    Likes Received:
    2,498
    Faith:
    Baptist
    No they don't.
     
    #22 Reynolds, Dec 1, 2021
  3. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Who did He die for then?
     
    #23 1689Dave, Dec 1, 2021
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The real difference for me is when finally understand the process God used to save me, so really knew God love me, and that he eternally saved me!
     
    #24 Yeshua1, Dec 1, 2021
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,896
    Likes Received:
    2,498
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You telling me all about what Arminians believe, you tell me what we believe. I have no problem telling you, bit I shouldn't have to since you supposedly know what Arminians believe.
     
    #25 Reynolds, Dec 1, 2021
  6. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2021
    Messages:
    2,912
    Likes Received:
    344
    Faith:
    Baptist
    In 1654 Puritans, under Cromwell, were asked to come up with the simplest set of beliefs that would make true fellowship possible among evangelicals. These Puritans, almost all Calvinists came up with 16 such points. High Calvinist John Owen presided over the committee. Not one of the 16 points involve the TULIP or the extent of the atonement or predestination. I think the Calvinist theology, with all it's flaws, is well done and the best attempt to explain theology. But I can say that an Arminian is a 100% equal brother in Christ with no qualifications needed. They need not make any excuse. Nor does anyone who has a combination of partial beliefs borrowed from each system or if they don't know what we're talking about. It's fun to debate these issues on a debate forum but anyone who runs around in a church buttonholing people on these issues should be told to stop.
     
    #26 DaveXR650, Dec 1, 2021
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    While I'm not a Calvinist or an Arminian I also see both as 100% brethren.

    The issue is fun to debate as the differences Center around philosophical ideas rather than Scripture itself (both affirm a belief in the same Bible and both value Scripture while differing in interpretation).

    It is fun to debate, but I suspect everybody knows the other will not be persuaded.

    I suspect every believer will one day discover they held an understanding that was not quite perfect.

    I also suspect Peter will tell me as I walk through the gate that he also knew Calvinism and Arminianism was wrong. :Biggrin
     
    #27 JonC, Dec 1, 2021
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    What aspect pf Calvinism do you have issues with then, is it Pst?
     
    #28 Yeshua1, Dec 1, 2021
  9. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2021
    Messages:
    2,912
    Likes Received:
    344
    Faith:
    Baptist
    JonC, I just hope he's not wearing a big high hat or we're all in trouble on here!
     
    #29 DaveXR650, Dec 1, 2021
    • Funny Funny x 1
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Except Paul told us about Calvinism!
     
    #30 Yeshua1, Dec 1, 2021
  11. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Same primary issue I have with Arminianism.

    No, it is not Penal Substitution Theory but something a bit deeper. I believe the Calvinistic (and Arminian) understanding of divine justice is flawed. If I believed otherwise I would be a Calvinist (it is, IMHO, the most consistent if their concept of justice were correct).
     
    #31 JonC, Dec 1, 2021
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    How are they flawed?
     
    #32 Yeshua1, Dec 1, 2021
  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    It. As a philosophy of justice I suppose it is not necessarily flawed, but I suggest it is worldly and different from what Scripture teaches concerning true justice. Other issues concerning the 16th Century idea of justice exists (for example, Calvin's articulation of "simple punishment", but I think even these issues arise out of misunderstanding exactly what is meant by "morality" in a divine sense (think of Javert's pursuit of Valjean).
     
    #33 JonC, Dec 1, 2021
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Is God moral and just to have Jesus take what we are due because of being sinners?
     
    #34 Yeshua1, Dec 1, 2021
  15. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2018
    Messages:
    5,983
    Likes Received:
    1,364
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I had no idea of what the Lord would later show me through His word.
     
    #35 Dave G, Dec 1, 2021
  16. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes. That's kinda the point.
     
    #36 JonC, Dec 1, 2021
  17. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I was an Arminian and know it ends up with you saving yourself according to many different reasons, depending on who you talk to.
     
    #37 1689Dave, Dec 1, 2021
  18. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,896
    Likes Received:
    2,498
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Then you were not an Arminian. A non-cal maybe, but not an Arminian.
     
    #38 Reynolds, Dec 1, 2021
  19. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I was an Arminian even though it never made sense. Free Will? What role does it play in your brand of Arminianism? It still ends up in supposed self-salvation.
     
    #39 1689Dave, Dec 1, 2021
  20. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    What are the flaws in Calvinism? How is Arminianism not flawed?
     
    #40 1689Dave, Dec 1, 2021
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 2 of 5
Loading...