Did Jesus have a belly button? Was he nourished by his mother in the womb? Was the life of him dependent upon his mother and her life that was dependent upon God, the Father?
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Luke 1:35 And The Real Human Nature of Jesus Christ
- Thread starter SavedByGrace
- Start date
Did Jesus have a belly button? Was he nourished by his mother in the womb? Was the life of him dependent upon his mother and her life that was dependent upon God, the Father?
'Bout time.
I agree there is no biological source of sin. But sin isn't about what is 'transmitted.' It's about what isn't given, and that is life.
This is true.
I don't care. Compared with the rest of Scripture the wording is easily understood and cannot be wrested to say that Jesus took anything from Mary but His body.
He was the Seed of the Woman.
This is where you get kooky.
No it's not. Mary descended from Abraham. Her seed is the seed of Abraham.
Lot's of big wurds there. I like the simple words in the Scripture. The Word became flesh, and lived among us. In Him, dwells the fulness of the Godhead bodily. That's where I leave it.
Perhaps. I don't care. A note scribbled by God's gifts to the church as they're musing on the narratives, and that seeps into the text and survives the fires of perscution and the universal scrutiny of the shepherds did not escape the notice of the Spirit, and is no threat or detriment to the learning of Christ.
And as SBG is demonstrating, 'correcting' the text is no help in understanding it.
Was He born of a woman?
Yes, had to be, in order to give his, "life", for redemption. Gal4:5 What is meant by, "life"? How could, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God; this one was in the beginning with God; - give his, "life", for redemption?
life? And Jehovah Elohim formed Man, dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and Man (dust of the ground) became a living soul. Gen 2:7 Darby
for the soul (living) of the flesh is in the blood; and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that maketh atonement for the soul. Lev 17:11 Darby
I have stated many times I know no Greek. Well I know less than, no, Hebrew yet just noticed something interesting ;
17:11 כִּי נֶפֶשׁ הַבָּשָׂר בַּדָּם הִוא וַאֲנִי נְתַתִּיו לָכֶם עַל־הַמִּזְבֵּחַ לְכַפֵּר עַל־נַפְשֹׁתֵיכֶם כִּֽי־הַדָּם הוּא בַּנֶּפֶשׁ יְכַפֵּֽר׃
That literally reads, she and I give it to you. Don't really know what that means but do find it interesting. Maybe some Hebrew guru can help out.
It's really really arrogant of @SavedByGrace to flippantly brush others off with "Matters not what you think".
Who does he think he is? A legend in his own mind I guess.
I can answer the OP with one scripture... And I see no one even bothered to look... Brother Glen
1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
I can answer the OP with one scripture... And I see no one even bothered to look... Brother Glen
1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
I agree with @Aaron:
...couldn't have said it better...
Thank you.
37818
Well-Known Member
The only purpose of those words εκ σου are for Mary. The fact is Genesis 3:15 alone establish that truth without Mary being told about it by an angel.
Sorry Aaron... I'm 75 and have been on here a little less than you and I apologize... Don't post like I use to but that being said, I've read and studied all about the question SBG poses and the only way we are going to find out, is when we see Jesus Christ face to face... Until then its just unlearned men speculating... Brother Glen
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
I have my own conclusions after my own personal studies, and have seen the way this OP has been misrepresented by those who don't understand the Person of the Lord Jesus Christ, but will continue to write their unbiblical veiws!
The Bible is clear to those who understand what it teaches, that Jesus Christ, the Eternal God, Who remains God, took upon Himself the "nature" of a real human, "body, will, spirit", derived from the Virgin Mary, and is therefore "consubstantial" with humans as to His "human nature". Jesus is The GOD-MAN, 100% God and 100% Man, which the exception of any sin. This is very clear from Philippians 2:5-8, where the Greek "morphe" is the "essential nature". This does not mean that Jesus Christ is two "Persons", but, two natures in One Person. Indeed why Paul writes:
"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh" (1 Timothy 3:16
and Colossians 2:2
"that they may know the mystery of God Christ"
For those who oppose this, it does not really matter what they think, as they are against the Teachings of the Holy Bible!
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Sorry Aaron... I'm 75 and have been on here a little less than you and I apologize... Don't post like I use to but that being said, I've read and studied all about the question SBG poses and the only way we are going to find out, is when we see Jesus Christ face to face... Until then its just unlearned men speculating... Brother Glen
there is no speculation with the Truth as taught in the Bible, only in the minds of those who cannot grasp them!
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Luke 1:35 is not alone, the same thing is said by Matthew in chpater 1, where he writes in verse 16, "ἐξ ἧς", which is both in the singular number, and feminine gender, "out of whom", which can only mean Mary, and excludes Joseph as Jesus' actual father.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
I can answer the OP with one scripture... And I see no one even bothered to look... Brother Glen
1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Brother, I am not dealing with the Deity of Jesus Christ in the OP, but the reality of His "human nature", that it is not something created and placed in the womb of Mary, but actually engendered by God the Holy Spirit, "out of" Mary, and therefore consubstantial with us.
1 Timothy 3:16, does not teach this
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
I have given what I believe to be the original reading by Luke, which predates any of the Greek manuscripts that we have, and found in the Greek Gospel of Luke in the 1st century AD. I understand there are some who cannot accept this, as they are hung-up on the manuscript count!
I have given what I believe to be the original reading by Luke, which predates any of the Greek manuscripts that we have, and found in the Greek Gospel of Luke in the 1st century AD. I understand there are some who cannot accept this, as they are hung-up on the manuscript count!
Because you are not telling the truth at all. It is not found in the Greek Gospel of Luke in the 1st century AD. The Greek manuscript tradition says that it was not written by Luke 1st century AD.
You are loyal to the reading because you saw it on an Onlyist site, and not on manuscript evidence.
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SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
HaHa! is this the best that you can do?
I am NOT, nor ever been, or ever will be, a KJVO! Nor do I visit their websites, or read their publications, or watch their videos!
Facts are facts, as I have shown in the OP, and also provided links in replies on here, as early as Justin Martyr, “ἐκ σοῦ”, is part of the Gospel of Luke. Unless you think that all of the early Church fathers mentioned in the OP, and many more, who are Greek or Latin, or both, are lying, or mistaken, then what you say is MOOT!
Your quotations are unreliable. Every one of them are old and use early modern English and are unreliable.
The only early names on your list are Tertullian and Cyprian in any apparatus that I can find. Show us a credible apparatus that shows what Fathers cite the words not early unreliable editions.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
"But Mary the Virgin receiving faith and grace, when the angel Gabriel brought her the good news that the Spirit of the Lord should come upon her, and the power of the Highest should overshadow her, wherefore also that Holy Thing that is born of her is Son of God"
Justin Martyr, https://earlychurch.org.uk/pdf/e-books/williams_a-lukyn/dialogue-with-trypho_williams.pdf page 210
ALL of the evidence in the OP and elsewhere, I have personally checked in the works of the Church Fathers. Please don't make dumb remarks that you know nothing of!