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Does God want me to Sin?

utilyan

utilyan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Does God want me to sin?

Does God want you to sin?

Does God want anyone in the world to sin?


Now the following questions may look like the above for some people:


Does God want me to sin, REALLY?

Does God want you to sin, , TRULY?

Does God want anyone in the world to sin, HONESTLY?
 
George Antonios

George Antonios

Well-Known Member
Calvinism: If a man sins, then that was the sovereign will of the Sovereign God who sovereignly decreed the sin, for man cannot resist the sovereign will of the Sovereign God which he in his sovereignty has decreed.
 
L

Logos1560

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
George Antonios said:
Calvinism: If a man sins, then that was the sovereign will of the Sovereign God who sovereignly decreed the sin, for man cannot resist the sovereign will of the Sovereign God which he in his sovereignty has decreed.
Click to expand...

Are you suggesting that you speak for Calvinists?

You did not provide any direct quotations from Calvinists that state what you claim so you may be putting words in their mouth that they do not state.

Do you condemn the Calvinists who made the KJV? The majority of the Church of England makers of the KJV were Calvinists.
Do KJV-only advocates perhaps use the same type reasoning as Calvinists in their attempts to justify a modern KJV-only view?
 
M

Martin Marprelate

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Logos1560 said:
Are you suggesting that you speak for Calvinists?

You did not provide any direct quotations from Calvinists that state what you claim so you may be putting words in their mouth that they do not state.

Do you condemn the Calvinists who made the KJV? The majority of the Church of England makers of the KJV were Calvinists.
Do KJV-only advocates perhaps use the same type reasoning as Calvinists in their attempts to justify a modern KJV-only view?
Click to expand...
If a man's only tool is a hammer, every problem becomes a nail.
 
M

Martin Marprelate

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
utilyan said:
Does God want me to sin?

Does God want you to sin?

Does God want anyone in the world to sin?


Now the following questions may look like the above for some people:


Does God want me to sin, REALLY?

Does God want you to sin, , TRULY?

Does God want anyone in the world to sin, HONESTLY?
Click to expand...
Daniel 4:35. God does not desire anyone to sin, but it is plain that He allows sin in the world for His own high purposes (c.f. Romans 1:24; James 1:13-15 etc.).
 
George Antonios

George Antonios

Well-Known Member
Martin Marprelate said:
Daniel 4:35. God does not desire anyone to sin, but it is plain that He allows sin in the world for His own high purposes (c.f. Romans 1:24; James 1:13-15 etc.).
Click to expand...

Now it's "allows", eh? Interesting choice of word there.
"allows" or "decrees"? Come on, don't be shy now. Does anything come to pass that he has not "decreed"?
Why are you suddenly terminologically shy?

Calvin explicitly condemned those who argue that sin was the mere permission of God. See below.
 
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M

Martin Marprelate

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
George Antonios said:
Now it's "allows", eh? Interesting choice of word there.
"allows" or "decrees"? Come on, don't be shy now. Does anything come to pass that he has not "decreed"?
Why are you suddenly terminologically shy?

Calvin explicitly condemned those who argue that sin was the mere permission of God. See below.
Click to expand...
Why would I be interested in Calvin? I provided three Bible texts. If you would like to address those, or some different ones, I am happy to discuss further.
But you may be sure that nothing happens in the Universe that is outside of God's permissive will.
 
George Antonios

George Antonios

Well-Known Member
Martin Marprelate said:
Why would I be interested in Calvin? I provided three Bible texts. If you would like to address those, or some different ones, I am happy to discuss further.
But you may be sure that nothing happens in the Universe that is outside of God's permissive will.
Click to expand...

Good.
So, you touched on everything but the main point: "allows", or "decrees"?
 
DaveXR650

DaveXR650

Well-Known Member
George, the OP was does God "want" someone to sin. Some Calvinists, in trying to explain versus that clearly teach God is sovereign and he willingly takes responsibility for calamity do come close to saying that but there is more to it than that. James 1:13-14 shuts the door on whether God tempts or wants anyone to sin. But some Calvinists, like Jonathan Edwards try to show that God will use someone who has an evil bent to sin in a specific way that furthers God's plan. Like Pharaoh, for example. Pharaoh's choice to sin was his own - but God had a hand in whether Pharaoh's opportunity was to oppress a whole nation or just kick his dog and beat his wife in some little hut in rural Egypt. And God said that he raised Pharaoh up for his own reasons. You have to answer the same question George because if God knew that a sin was going to happen he either allows it (ordains it) , or he didn't know it was going to happen. There is simply no other reality.
 
George Antonios

George Antonios

Well-Known Member
DaveXR650 said:
George, the OP was does God "want" someone to sin. Some Calvinists, in trying to explain versus that clearly teach God is sovereign and he willingly takes responsibility for calamity do come close to saying that but there is more to it than that. James 1:13-14 shuts the door on whether God tempts or wants anyone to sin. But some Calvinists, like Jonathan Edwards try to show that God will use someone who has an evil bent to sin in a specific way that furthers God's plan. Like Pharaoh, for example. Pharaoh's choice to sin was his own - but God had a hand in whether Pharaoh's opportunity was to oppress a whole nation or just kick his dog and beat his wife in some little hut in rural Egypt. And God said that he raised Pharaoh up for his own reasons. You have to answer the same question George because if God knew that a sin was going to happen he either allows it (ordains it) , or he didn't know it was going to happen. There is simply no other reality.
Click to expand...
So is post #3 accurate or not?
 
DaveXR650

DaveXR650

Well-Known Member
Your post is not accurate. It's also a shame you blew right through my answer and didn't feel it was worth responding directly. No matter, skip mine and - answer MM's post #13. I'll be waiting.
 
atpollard

atpollard

Well-Known Member
George Antonios said:
Now it's "allows", eh? Interesting choice of word there.
Click to expand...
How about this:
[Genesis 50:20 KJV] 20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

Did God intend for Joseph to be sold into slavery, or was that God's "plan B"?
[God did not FORCE the brothers to do evil, God merely allowed fallen men to follow their evil desires ... according to God's plan and for God's glory.]
 
George Antonios

George Antonios

Well-Known Member
atpollard said:
How about this:
[Genesis 50:20 KJV] 20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

Did God intend for Joseph to be sold into slavery, or was that God's "plan B"?
[God did not FORCE the brothers to do evil, God merely allowed fallen men to follow their evil desires ... according to God's plan and for God's glory.]
Click to expand...

Answering the question would be helpful: Does God simply allow men's sins, or does he decree them?
Why is it so hard to get a straight up answer?
 
atpollard

atpollard

Well-Known Member
George Antonios said:
Take #3. Does God simply allow men's sins, or does he decree them?
Click to expand...
The OP asked if God DESIRED men's sins ...
utilyan said:
Does God want me to sin?

Does God want you to sin?

Does God want anyone in the world to sin?
Click to expand...
... that is not the same as "Does God simply allow men's sins, or does he decree them?"
You have moved the goal posts.


God both allows and decrees men's sins, however God does not CAUSE men to sin. We are quite capable of sinning without any assistance of God. As Romans 1 says, God allows men the freedom to pursue our evil desires:
Romans 1:21 (they did not)
Romans 1:24 (Therefore God also gave them up)
Romans 1:26 (God gave them up)
Romans 1:28 (God gave them over)
 
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