Does God want me to Sin?

[atpollard]

Answering the question would be helpful: Does God simply allow men's sins, or does he decree them?
Why is it so hard to get a straight up answer?

You reject the answers offered from the word of God ... of what value are my opinions in comparison?

However, in case you missed it ...

Q. Does God simply allow men's sins, or does he decree them?
A. God BOTH allows and decrees men's sins, but God does not cause men to sin.

 

[DaveXR650]

Sometimes I'm guilty of sermons. Sorry. But honestly George if you can't read and respond to a paragraph that takes 35 seconds to read you really shouldn't be on here. Anyway, I'll try. God is completely aware of everything that goes on and will go on. It all will come out the way he wants. We all are free to do whatever we want within the limitations of nature and God. Yet somehow, it will all end up being according to his plan - and we are still responsible for our behavior. That's 4 sentences. I know that's a sermon for a Lutheran but come on, that should be no problem for a good Baptist, especially after he removes his jacket.

 

[George Antonios]

God both allows and decrees men's sins, however God does not CAUSE men to sin. We are quite capable of sinning without any assistance of God.

Thank you for an actual answer.
So, God decrees sin, but he doesn't cause sin.
Tell me, does God decree salvation?

 

[George Antonios]

You reject the answers offered from the word of God ... of what value are my opinions in comparison?

However, in case you missed it ...

Q. Does God simply allow men's sins, or does he decree them?
A. God BOTH allows and decrees men's sins, but God does not cause men to sin.

Well, that turned out to be a premature post.

 

[George Antonios]

Sometimes I'm guilty of sermons. Sorry. But honestly George if you can't read and respond to a paragraph that takes 35 seconds to read you really shouldn't be on here. Anyway, I'll try. God is completely aware of everything that goes on and will go on. It all will come out the way he wants. We all are free to do whatever we want within the limitations of nature and God. Yet somehow, it will all end up being according to his plan - and we are still responsible for our behavior. That's 4 sentences. I know that's a sermon for a Lutheran but come on, that should be no problem for a good Baptist, especially after he removes his jacket.

When you want to answer without obfuscation, let me know. For instance, @atpollard answered clearly.

God BOTH allows and decrees men's sins

All the best.

 

[DaveXR650]

When you want to answer without obfuscation, let me know. For instance, @atpollard answered clearly.

He did indeed to a good job in one sentence that took me four. Now I have to go look up "obfuscation". Shoot, I might be mad at you!

 

[utilyan]

So I can walk up to a complete stranger and Say "God does not want you to sin, Because he wants you saved and loves you."

God commands for all to Love God and Neighbor. This command expresses his want and desire without deception.

When he commands for the wicked to repent .......That means he wants and desires the wicked to repent, he actually wants to save them.

I think God's WANT AND DESIRE is pretty foundational issue. Because if you can't figure out what God wants from his own command, then even his character falls apart to a evil version of God.

So when God says he WANTS something done.......does he really or is it a TRICK or a LIE?

 

[atpollard]

Tell me, does God decree salvation?

Yes.
Men are quite capable if sinning in our natural state without any need for God to compel us to sin.
We are utterly incapable of righteousness (doing and being right) without God taking an active part.

[Romans 8:28-30 NKJV]

And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.​

[Not to argue the usual talking points for these verses, just pointing to the fact that HE (GOD) was busy doing.]

 

[utilyan]

Calvinism: If a man sins, then that was the sovereign will of the Sovereign God who sovereignly decreed the sin, for man cannot resist the sovereign will of the Sovereign God which he in his sovereignty has decreed.

If I were Calvinist and thought God must meticulously all phenomenon and choices, Then I would have no one to talk to but God, every thing else is a souless puppet.


I would post here and pressume all answers given were just a mix of God's own answer. The puppets have no bearing of any answer that wasn't ordained by God. So I'm talking to God with the entirety of nature as the medium.

 

[George Antonios]

Yes.
Men are quite capable if sinning in our natural state without any need for God to compel us to sin.
We are utterly incapable of righteousness (doing and being right) without God taking an active part.

[Romans 8:28-30 NKJV]

And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.​

[Not to argue the usual talking points for these verses, just pointing to the fact that HE (GOD) was busy doing.]

Hold up:

God both allows and decrees men's sins, however God does not CAUSE men to sin.

And:

Tell me, does God decree salvation?

Answered with:

Yes.

You have stated that God decrees both sin and salvation.
You also said that, although God decrees sin, he does not cause sin.
So, in keeping with that logic, God decrees salvation, but he does not cause salvation.

 

[atpollard]

So I can walk up to a complete stranger and Say "God does not want you to sin, Because he wants you saved and loves you."

God commands for all to Love God and Neighbor. This command expresses his want and desire without deception.

When he commands for the wicked to repent .......That means he wants and desires the wicked to repent, he actually wants to save them.

I think God's WANT AND DESIRE is pretty foundational issue. Because if you can't figure out what God wants from his own command, then even his character falls apart to a evil version of God.

So when God says he WANTS something done.......does he really or is it a TRICK or a LIE?

[1 Timothy 2:1-7 NKJV]

1 Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, 2 for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For [there is] one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, 7 for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle--I am speaking the truth in Christ and not lying--a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.​

I am confident in claiming that God desires all men to be saved, because God has said so in His word (which is trustworthy).

Do all men "come to the knowledge of the truth" and are all men "saved"?

The same trustworthy word of God says "No."
So from these two irrefutable facts, men must begin their speculations as to "WHY?"

We "Reformed" are guilty of refusing to believe that the "WHY" is because God is not in control.
If you are going to reject any "choice" of who is saved and who is not on the part of God, then no amount of lipstick will cover the fact that that 'pig' has removed God from His position of control. Particular Baptists, like me, have a really hard time swallowing that "solution" given the rest of trustworthy scripture that it must be made to agree with.

So what does God want? permit? cause to happen?
It does injustice to the real "mystery" to attempt to reduce it to a sound-bite answer.

 

[atpollard]

So, in keeping with that logic, God decrees salvation, but he does not cause salvation.

That is a logic flaw, but I don't have the time or inclination to look up the name of it.
Suffice it to say that damnation and salvation are not identical but opposite processes.
People are not morally neutral.

 

[George Antonios]

That is a logic flaw, but I don't have the time or inclination to look up the name of it.
Suffice it to say that damnation and salvation are not identical but opposite processes.
People are not morally neutral.

Say how it is logically flawed then, please, whether you can name it or not.
If you can explain how God decrees something without causing it, especially when you confess such causality in one instance, we will all be impressed.

 

[DaveXR650]

As far as a meticulous ordering of every molecule in the universe and every event I don't know what God does and never have claimed to. In regards to men sinning, if you have a sin nature and you live a length of time you will sin. So I could decree that men will sin without making them sin. I thought traditional Baptists, Fundamentalists, Calvinists and classical Arminians were all in on that.

 

[DaveXR650]

If you think that men are totally in control of what they do then they need to simply get it together, stop sinning and start worshipping God on their own. You will also be aligning yourself with Pelagius and a system that was even condemned by the Catholic church. You are in disagreement with John R.Rice, and Billy Graham as well as the Calvinists. I will accept answers up to several sentences long if there are no big words.

 

[Alcott]

No. Romans 6:1-3.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Answering the question would be helpful: Does God simply allow men's sins, or does he decree them?
Why is it so hard to get a straight up answer?

Why is it so hard to get a Bible verse out of you?

 

[George Antonios]

Why is it so hard to get a Bible verse out of you?

Still waiting for that answer brother.

 

[George Antonios]

If you think that men are totally in control of what they do then they need to simply get it together, stop sinning and start worshipping God on their own. You will also be aligning yourself with Pelagius and a system that was even condemned by the Catholic church. You are in disagreement with John R.Rice, and Billy Graham as well as the Calvinists. I will accept answers up to several sentences long if there are no big words.

Again, beside the point. The question is: does God decree sin? So far, only @atpollard has given a straight answer.

 

[George Antonios]

if you have a sin nature and you live a length of time you will sin. So I could decree that men will sin without making them sin.

That's not "decreeing" (in the Calvinist sense) sin and you probably know it. But such are the contortions necessary to obfuscate when sensing a quandary.