Is repentance an aspect of faith, or is repentance a good work?

[SavedByGrace]

Interesting how some on here dismiss what the 4 reformed Theologians have to say and Thomas Watson?

The modern day "reformed" have abandoned their own roots

 

[AustinC]

It must be noted that repentance and sorrow are not the same thing. A person can cry out to God with weeping and wailing, saying "I'm sorry, I'm sorry" while never repenting. They are remorseful but not repentant.

Repentance means to make a 180 degree turn away from where you were going.

Sinners, not affected by the dragging (drawing) of the Holy Spirit, will never turn away from their godless trajectory. They have no reason to do so and they have no will to change. In fact, repentance will be foolishness to them.

Only if God changes their mind and reveals their corruption will they ever change their course.

Therefore, God is always the cause agent that effects human behavior.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Listen to the video

I listened to the video all the way through and had no problem with it. What is the message from it that you want us to hear?
BTW, who were those guys? I didn't recognize any of them, though that is probably my fault rather than theirs.

 

[AustinC]

Listen to the video

Why? Is the video God's word being read to me so I can see what God teaches?
sbw, you keep looking for people you think are going tp sway me as if they are the "popes" of Reformed theology. It's your modus operandi to try make me think like you and remove grace from salvation. You have such a weak biblical position that is destroyed by the Bible writers that you now are desperately looking for some secondary source to sway me.

It is time you give up your salvation by works theology as it is not supported by the writers of the Bible, namily...God Himself.

 

[SavedByGrace]

It is time you give up your salvation by works theology as it is not supported by the writers of the Bible, namily...God Himself

Austin, I do wonder if you are ok?

These people are NOT any old theologians who believe in "salvation by works", but REFORMED, as was Thomas Watson!

Show from any of these, where they taught this FALSEHOOD? Show from any of my many posts, where I have ever agreed with this nonsense that you keep on FALSELY accusing me of?

ALL of the older Reformed theologians believed in REPENTING from sins and FAITH in the Lord Jesus Christ, BEFORE salvation. WHY should you guys today think that YOU got it right, and these wrong???

 

[SavedByGrace]

I listened to the video all the way through and had no problem with it. What is the message from it that you want us to hear?
BTW, who were those guys? I didn't recognize any of them, though that is probably my fault rather than theirs.

are you "Reformed"? Click the link and read what Thomas Watson says

You should know by now, that I am NOT "Reformed" in my theology, and yet I very much agree with these "Reformed" guys on this!

 

[SavedByGrace]

A person can cry out to God with weeping and wailing, saying "I'm sorry, I'm sorry" while never repenting. They are remorseful but not repentant

speak for yourself!

How DARE you arrogantly suppose that others are faking it?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

are you "Reformed"? Click the link and read what Thomas Watson says

You should know by now, that I am NOT "Reformed" in my theology, and yet I very much agree with these "Reformed" guys on this!

Ah! I have the book. It is in the 'Puritan Paperback' selection from Banner of Truth.
I must confess that it is a long time since I read it; you have encouraged me to do so again.

But read what Watson says at the very start of your link, which is actually the beginning of Chapter 3.

'I shall next show what gospel repentance is. Repentance is a grace of God's Spirit, whereby a sinner is inwardly humbled and outwardly reformed.'

Repentance is a grace of the Holy Spirit, and by it, sinners do not inwardly humble and outwardly reform themselves; they are humbled and reformed. The verbs are Passive. That is not to say that there is nothing for a man to do. 'Let go and let God' is a wretched doctrine. No, we do these things, but it is the Holy Spirit who impels us to do so, and therefore Watson rightly ascribes the work to Him. What does Paul say? '.....Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to do of His good pleasure' (Philippians 2:12-13).

I think it is @Silverhair rather than you who is obsessed with robotics. It's not that at all. We have to believe and repent, but when we do so, it is God, by the Spirit, who has opened our heart to believe and moved us, gently but irresistibly, to repent.


BTW, in Post #27 you rather brusquely criticized @AustinC for suggesting that there might be such a thing as fake repentance. I take it that you have read Watson's book? Chapter 2 is entitled 'Counterfeit Repentance.'

 

[DaveXR650]

BTW, in Post #27 you rather brusquely criticized @AustinC for suggesting that there might be such a thing as fake repentance. I take it that you have read Watson's book? Chapter 2 is entitled 'Counterfeit Repentance.'

I noticed that too and I figured then that in the internet chess match SBG had just put his queen in jeopardy. I wondered if anyone would notice that. If you are going to use Puritans you have to realize they say a lot and in 27 different ways. Read enough and they will get around to any position you want.

 

[AustinC]

Austin, I do wonder if you are ok?

These people are NOT any old theologians who believe in "salvation by works", but REFORMED, as was Thomas Watson!

Show from any of these, where they taught this FALSEHOOD? Show from any of my many posts, where I have ever agreed with this nonsense that you keep on FALSELY accusing me of?

ALL of the older Reformed theologians believed in REPENTING from sins and FAITH in the Lord Jesus Christ, BEFORE salvation. WHY should you guys today think that YOU got it right, and these wrong???

I note that I addressed you and you simply went to a secondary source discussion.
sbw, when you give up your works requirements for salvation let me know.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Ah! I have the book. It is in the 'Puritan Paperback' selection from Banner of Truth.
I must confess that it is a long time since I read it; you have encouraged me to do so again.

But read what Watson says at the very start of your link, which is actually the beginning of Chapter 3.

'I shall next show what gospel repentance is. Repentance is a grace of God's Spirit, whereby a sinner is inwardly humbled and outwardly reformed.'

Repentance is a grace of the Holy Spirit, and by it, sinners do not inwardly humble and outwardly reform themselves; they are humbled and reformed. The verbs are Passive. That is not to say that there is nothing for a man to do. 'Let go and let God' is a wretched doctrine. No, we do these things, but it is the Holy Spirit who impels us to do so, and therefore Watson rightly ascribes the work to Him. What does Paul say? '.....Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to do of His good pleasure' (Philippians 2:12-13).

I think it is @Silverhair rather than you who is obsessed with robotics. It's not that at all. We have to believe and repent, but when we do so, it is God, by the Spirit, who has opened our heart to believe and moved us, gently but irresistibly, to repent.


BTW, in Post #27 you rather brusquely criticized @AustinC for suggesting that there might be such a thing as fake repentance. I take it that you have read Watson's book? Chapter 2 is entitled 'Counterfeit Repentance.'

lets be clear on this. NO sinner can in and of themselves ever seek the Lord and repent, as they cannot do this. It is clear that they must hear the Gospel preached, as Paul says in Romans 10, and the events in Acts 2, and then the Holy Spirit CONVICTS them through this Message, as Jesus says in John 16:8-10; and Acts 2:37, when they were CUT TO THE HEART. We also read in Acts 7, that this "convicting" by the Holy Spirit can be "resisted" (verse 51), not like the Reformed state, that God's grace cannot be resisted. If, like those in Acts 2 respond by wanting to be saved, then they must REPENT of their sins, as Peter clearly tells them in verse 38, etc.

 

[SavedByGrace]

sbw, when you give up your works requirements for salvation let me know

another FALSE accusation!

if you want to continue with this NONSENSE, as you have done in the past, then I suggest that you do not comment on any of my posts.

 

[SavedByGrace]

I noticed that too and I figured then that in the internet chess match SBG had just put his queen in jeopardy. I wondered if anyone would notice that. If you are going to use Puritans you have to realize they say a lot and in 27 different ways. Read enough and they will get around to any position you want.

so you guys think that today you have discovered something that the older theologians missed?

What is said in the OP in the video clip, is 100% BIBLICAL, and by reformed theologians!

 

[AustinC]

speak for yourself!

How DARE you arrogantly suppose that others are faking it?

This should scare anyone...
Hebrews 12:16-17
Make sure that no one is immoral or godless like Esau, who traded his birthright as the firstborn son for a single meal. You know that afterward, when he wanted his father’s blessing, he was rejected. It was too late for repentance, even though he begged with bitter tears.

Notice that tears are irrelevant to God. What is relevant is turning away from sin.

No godless person will ever turn away from sin by their own willpower. But, you teach that they must, before God can ever draw them.

 

[SavedByGrace]

We have to believe and repent, but when we do so, it is God, by the Spirit, who has opened our heart to believe and moved us, gently but irresistibly, to repent.

if you here refer to Lydia, then you will notice that it says, "who worshiped God", like Cornelius, who was "devout and fearing God"; that God sent the Message for their salvation, and helped them understand waht was said. The reformed read their "election" theology into this, but fail to notice that these two were already worshipping and fearing the Lord BEFORE they heard the Gospel for their slavation!

 

[SavedByGrace]

This should scare anyone...
Hebrews 12:16-17
Make sure that no one is immoral or godless like Esau, who traded his birthright as the firstborn son for a single meal. You know that afterward, when he wanted his father’s blessing, he was rejected. It was too late for repentance, even though he begged with bitter tears.

Notice that tears are irrelevant to God. What is relevant is turning away from sin.

No godless person will ever turn away from sin by their own willpower. But, you teach that they must, before God can ever draw them.

OPEN your eyes and SEE what I have written MANY times as I have in # 31, before you post your rather STUPID comments!

 

[DaveXR650]

so you guys think that today you have discovered something that the older theologians missed?

What is said in the OP in the video clip, is 100% BIBLICAL, and by reformed theologians!

SBG, I was just joking with my post #29. I have been trying to say that some of these guys on here have come up with something odd that the Puritans did not do. I have used John Owen, John Bunyan, and the WCF itself to try to show them that they go too far in this metaphysical philosophy where it becomes a work to believe the gospel. One of them figures I'm probably going to Hell because I pointed out that they don't really know their own confessions. I don't know if they went to school to learn this stuff or if they pick it up while sitting around drinking craft beers and smoking cigars but I have yet to see where they know what they are talking about. But you could show a little more grace too!

 

[SavedByGrace]

SBG, I was just joking with my post #29. I have been trying to say that some of these guys on here have come up with something odd that the Puritans did not do. I have used John Owen, John Bunyan, and the WCF itself to try to show them that they go too far in this metaphysical philosophy where it becomes a work to believe the gospel. One of them figures I'm probably going to Hell because I pointed out that they don't really know their own confessions. I don't know if they went to school to learn this stuff or if they pick it up while sitting around drinking craft beers and smoking cigars but I have yet to see where they know what they are talking about. But you could show a little more grace too!

I am trying to have serious conversations here

 

[DaveXR650]

I know. I should have realized that because some of your words are in all caps. A sure sign when someone is SERIOUS. Lighten up. You have made a good point about the fact that there is some huge differences in the way the reformers preached and some of this modern philosophy. Now, relax and see if they can respond. If they have a real answer I really would like to know.

 

[SavedByGrace]

I know. I should have realized that because some of your words are in all caps. A sure sign when someone is SERIOUS. Lighten up. You have made a good point about the fact that there is some huge differences in the way the reformers preached and some of this modern philosophy. Now, relax and see if they can respond. If they have a real answer I really would like to know.

I use CAPS to emphasize something.

You are new on here, in the 15 months that I have been on here, this subject has come up quite a few times, with mainly the same who respond with the same modern "theology", that their own Reformed theologins do not accept.

makes me wonder, which is more important, some theological system, or actual Biblical Teaching?