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Featured Dispensationalism is a humanly contrived system that has been imposed on the Sacred scripture.

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by VDMA, Dec 14, 2021.

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  1. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Fact, the "first resurrection" as such is not mentioned until after the tribualtion per Revelation 20:4-6. Never before.
    Fact, the church is understood to be the bride of Christ, which includes saved Israel, Revelation 21:12-14.
     
    #81 37818, Dec 25, 2021
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  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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  3. timtofly

    timtofly Well-Known Member

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    That is your answer. Revelation 20 is not the spiritual and eternal kingdom. John is not a Pharisee, so he is not putting forth Pharisee doctrine. John was witness to a literal 1000 year period on earth, and it is not the here and now, but post Second Coming.
     
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  4. timtofly

    timtofly Well-Known Member

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    That has been the case since Adam disobeyed God. Satan's work was done in the Garden, no further work necessary. So not sure why you think he needed to be bound at any point in past history.
     
  5. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    ??? Don't you read the scripture?

    And he laid hold on the dragon, the old serpent, which is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and cast him into the abyss, and shut it, and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, until the thousand years should be finished: after this he must be loosed for a little time. Rev 20:2,3

    The strong man has been bound and his goods, the Gentiles, spoiled. If he hadn't been bound those hundreds of scripture passages concerning the incoming of the Gentiles would never have been fulfilled.

    But thanks be unto God, who always leadeth us in triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest through us the savor of his knowledge in every place. 2 Cor 2:14

    giving thanks unto the Father, who made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light; who delivered us out of the power of darkness, and translated us into the kingdom of the Son of his love......even the mystery which hath been hid for ages and generations: but now hath it been manifested to his saints, to whom God was pleased to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Col 1:12,13,26,27

    .....To this end was the Son of God manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 1 Jn 3:8

    Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. Jn 12:31

    .....the prince of this world hath been judged. Jn 16:11
     
    #85 kyredneck, Dec 25, 2021
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  6. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    The harvest is in 3 phases, all mentioned in the OT. It is the firstfruits, the main harvest, and the gleanings. All 3 parts are one harvest. This is in keeping with the trinitarian signature that God stamps on all his revelations of himself. The seven Feasts of Israel likewise teaches us about this entire age in which we are living now. They too have the trinitarian signature.

    1) Passover
    2) Unleavened Bread
    3) First Fruits
    Festival = 21 days

    4) Feast of Weeks 49 days = 7 sabbaths (Pentecost)
    Festival

    5) Trumpets
    6) Day of Atonement
    7) Tabernacles
    Festival

    Spring summer and fall festivals were honored by the Jews of the OT as they observed these Feasts days. They depict the death, burial, and resurrection, trinitarian, of Jesus Christ, the giving of the Holy Ghost, and reestablishing Israel in her own land at tabernacles. This is the finality of this present age and there is no tribulation after that so your verse to teach a later tribulation will be during the literal fulfillment of feasts 5, 6, and 7. We can be assured of that since the previous 4 feasts have been literally fulfilled and nobody is looking for the sacrifice of Christ which actually happened on a May 14th or we are not looking for the giving of the Holy Ghost because that was actually done on Pentecost, 50 actual days after the resurrection of first fruits. The only feast days that have not been literally fulfilled are the final 3, the harvest and that is just as sure to happen as were the other 4.

    The trumpets will be the main harvest, and it was practiced on Oct 1 of the Jewish calendar, which was their 7th month. The day of atonement, Oct 10, will include the gleanings at the very end of the age and will be a resurrection of the slain tribulation saints.The tabernacles, Oct 15, will be the gathering of those who had been scattered and survived and had been saved of Israel and brought back to her land for the inauguration of her kingdom under King Jesus who will have returned in great glory. Then the Festival.

    Planting, growing, and harvest (3 in 1 and 1 in 3) represents a whole season.

    Matthew 13 has 7 parables that explains the goings on of this age, beginning, when Jesus our Lord is resurrected, to end, when he comes again in Glory.

    Trumpets

    51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
    52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
    53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.
    54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
    55 O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?
    56 The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    57 But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

    13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
    14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
    15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
    16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
    18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

    The problem is that people believes uninformed teachers and makes error their doctrine and afterwards cannot be taught because of the hardness of their hearts.

    If there is no rapture there is no church and the trumpet feasts means nothing. It was a 15 hundred year exercise in futility.
     
  7. timtofly

    timtofly Well-Known Member

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    The angels were created on day 4. The sons of God on day 6. There was no sin in creation that first week. In fact all the stars and sons of God praised God for the first 1000 years. God set the record in Job 38:4-8


    "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?"

    "And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. And the evening and the morning were the fourth day."


    "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."

    The morning stars were created on the 4th day, and the sons of God were created on the 6th Day. They all worshipped God on the Day of the Lord.

    "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,"

    The Day of the Lord is the first 1000 years of creation. Satan was not allowed to rebel until the 1000 years expired. Just like Revelation 20:7

    "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,"

    Satan was not allowed to rebel in the first 1000 years, nor will Satan be free to do anything the last 1000 years. Who knows at what point in those first 1000 years Satan wanted to rebel, but God only let Satan do what God wants, until God's timing, not Satan's.

    Adam was the only male in the Garden, but many sons of God throughout the rest of the earth. Adam was a son of God who was tasked to prevent sin, as he would die and sin would enter when he disobeyed God's one direct command.

    Adam acted out what Adam wanted, and that brought sin into the world. Satan can only decieve; and accuse the redeemed before God. A "job" he seems insanely good at. Satan does not want the 1000 years to happen any more than some human eschatology. Not sure why many, even pre-mill, do not see the Sabbath and the future 1000 years as a Lord's Day singular event, where God allows creation to progress as intended without Satan, and sin present.
     
  8. timtofly

    timtofly Well-Known Member

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    Because of picking and choosing what is symbolism or not. Revelation is literal in many of John's portrayals, then it has symbolic thought patterns. To say Revelation 21 is literal and 20 is not, is being really picky on what is literal and what is not.

    Everything after the 6th Seal will be seen by all humans. There is no spiritual blindness after the Second Coming, and the glorious appearing of the Lord God, the face of the one sitting on the throne, the GWT.

    But still the 1000 year reign of Christ is not the Kingdom Coming to earth. Only after the NHNE, will Paradise come down as the New Jerusalem. Right now Paradise cannot be seen. It is probably closer than we think it is.
     
  9. timtofly

    timtofly Well-Known Member

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    The first resurrection happened in 30AD the week of the Atonement on the Cross. Those in sheol, Abraham's bosom were bodily resurrected. The first resurrection is a physical resurrection. It happened before the great tribulation known as the NT church age. Many redeemed have entered Paradise as martyrs. Many peacefully. All souls are symbolically "under the alter". They are covered by the Atonement. But all in Paradise are enjoying a permanent incorruptible physical body. When this soul leaves this corruptible flesh, there is a permanent body made by God, not from Adam's genetics. Christ was the Atonement that allowed the second birth into the family of God, as a son of God. No one tasted death after the Cross. The soul immediately leaves this body for a permanent one in Paradise.
     
  10. timtofly

    timtofly Well-Known Member

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    The 1000 years is not past history. Not even symbolically.

    The works of Satan is not Satan, himself. His angels were cast out when Adam walked the earth. They are currently in chains until the 6th Trumpet. Demons are not angels. Devils are just demons. Demonic spirits cannot stay in heaven before God.

    The whole world will know and see this demonic sinful spiritual side of creation at the Second Coming. Could Jesus and His disciples see them when Christ was on earth? If so, it will happen again, but for all mankind at the Second Coming.

    "And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together."

    "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming."

    All of humanity will see the spiritual creation as easy as the physical creation. No one will be excused. Many will be easily decieved into still believing the lies of Satan.

    Satan being cast out happens day and night. It is still ongoing.

    "for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night."

    Was Jesus Christ sitting as advocate since Adam, while Satan accused the brethren day and night? Has it been ongoing, till this very day and will only stop at the 7th Trumpet? Which point in history do you apply your point? Was it only the 3.5 years while Christ did His earthly ministry?

    Satan will be bound for 1000 years, and in the future, because John witnessed it, and there is no negotiation on the matter.
     
    #90 timtofly, Dec 25, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2021
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    All extra Biblical dispensationalism.
    The Biblical:
    Christ is the first fruit.
    Those at His second appearing.
    Those in the Judgement.
     
  12. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    I like what you said about it. Nothing.
     
  13. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Why are people equating the kingdom of God with the Millenium?
     
  14. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Oh, how silly! Satan rebelled when he chose, as he had free will, same as us. Eve used her free will to believe Satan, even though it was against God's command, and Adam used his free will to believe Eve, even though he knew it was against God's command.

    No wonder we're losing our youth when they're told such tall tales as yours. We don't know who the morning stars were. The day of the Lord will be the return of Jesus. You need to get that junk outta your head.
     
  15. timtofly

    timtofly Well-Known Member

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    And replace God's Word with your human understanding? I don't think so.

    There was no creation before the 6 days of creation. And Satan cannot act outside of the will of God. Satan can reason, but not act in free will. If angels had free will we would see a different arrangement of stars every night instead of the positions God told the angels to hold. You think stars only have a one track mind in their alledged "free will"?

    "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:"

    We have the same constellations since day 4, because angels do not have free will. Well minus the one third of the stars that rebelled with Satan. Those constellations are being held in chains, waiting for the pit to be opened in the 5th Trumpet.

    Free will is not merely the ability to do as one pleases. Free will is the ability to make choices based on one's ability to reason, without coercion from another will outside of one's own will. A child is bound to the will of the parents or should be until a certain age. An adult has more choices than a child does. Not that an adult has more freedom than a child does. A child has as much freedom as an adult and can make the same choices as an adult. Society functions better when children are under the authority of responsible parents. Of course in today's society, authority and responsibility have all been jumbled up, and out of whack.

    Unless you can list more choices, Satan's "Free Will" is limited to two choices, decieve and accuse humanity. That keeps him busy day and night.
     
  16. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    HOW GOOFY!
    Stars are NOT angels. They're gaseous bodies, same as our sun, except they come in different brightnesses, colors, sizes, & distance from the earth. They appear in the same positions because they're so far away our eyes cannot detect their motions. And they're not alive!

    And we have free will because God created us with it, same as He did all other intelligent beings, from man to cherub. The most powerful cherub, Satan, CHOSE to sin, & 1/3 of the angels joined him in rebellion against God.

    We CHOOSE to be saved. I chose to believe God's word, believe in Jesus, repent of sin, & call on Jesus to save me. Nobody made me do it, nor did any irresistible force come over me. I FREELY CHOSE to do it.
     
  17. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    2 Repent ye; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Mt 3

    15 and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe in the gospel. Mk 1

    3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of the prophecy, and keep the things that are written therein: for the time is at hand. Rev 1

    10 And he saith unto me, Seal not up the words of the prophecy of this book; for the time is at hand. Rev 22
     
  18. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    And none of those verses make the Kingdom of God and the Millenium synonyms do they?
     
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  19. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    At the time of the writings, they were both 'at hand', not thousands of years into the future and still waiting. Satan was bound for a very long period, during the reign of Christ, which allowed for the huge growth and expansion of the Church by the incoming of the Gentiles, no longer deceived by Satan with their idols, all foretold and prophesied many times in the OT.
     
  20. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Satan has not been exiled yet. The proof is in the prevalence of sin. He tried very hard to stop the Gospel from spreading, but obviously failed due to God's greater power.
     
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