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How Far Are The Pro-Vaxers Willing To Go?

Discussion in 'News & Current Events' started by RipponRedeaux, Dec 24, 2021.

  1. Two Wings

    Two Wings Well-Known Member

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    If he did that, he might have to admit he's like the rest of us rather than superior to us.

    Perish the thought!

    I'm sure this guy is probably a great dude w/ whom to hang ... have a meal ... stand a barn ... whatever.

    But the online persona takes on the "long haired Harry" ... refusing to accept PMs is questionable.
     
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  2. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    In post #12 you said that we've been in a totalitarian state for a very long time. That's utter fiction. How in the world can you make up such nonsensical stuff Jon?
     
  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    We have, just not in the sense you define.

    Totalitarian - "relating to a system of government that is centralized and dictatorial and requires complete subservience to the state."

    I believe we meet this definition in terms of the federal government to states.

    I am not sure how you came up with the definition of totalitarian to mean "No freedom of movement unless Big Brother says so. You can't go more than 3 or so miles from your home." I suppose you've been watching movies or reading fiction.
     
  4. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    I think I'll take issue with your acceptance of their labels. Those pushing the cv jabs as the sole mechanism toward herd immunity, and who are at the same time maligning and marginalizing other eminent and effective treatments are not "pro-vax." They are either part of the communist revolution here and tyrants, or their useful idiots.

    Neither are those who opt out of the cv jabs on the basis of their own conscience or risk analyses, or who merely resist them to push back on the health tyranny "anti-vax."

    The long and the short of it is, this vax rollout is not about health. It's about freedom or slavery.
     
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  5. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    The basic difference between a totalitarian state and a free state.

    American arguing with Soviet:
    I can stand in front of the White House and suffer no consequences for railing against the president of the United States.

    Soviet counterargument:
    So, what? I can stand in front of the Kremlin and suffer no consequences for railing against the President of the United States.
     
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  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No. These are things that happen in a totalitarian state vs a free state.

    Definition of totalitarianism

    1: centralized control by an autocratic authority

    2: the political concept that the citizen should be totally subject to an absolute state authority
     
  7. just-want-peace

    just-want-peace Well-Known Member
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    Just spittin' in the wind, RR, just spittin in the wind!
     
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  8. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    Only those with sufficient discernment would be expected to understand the application. Clearly the joke indicates the difference in the way the two types of states operate.
     
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  9. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    The better question is:
    How far wil antivaxers go in disobedience to God, while still maintaining they are justified?
     
  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Ahhhh.....so you are shifting from definition to application.

    Do you believe this an honest way of saying I do not know what totalitarianism means?

    I don't believe it is at all. In fact, it appears to be a type of shell game.

    The reason I say that is I certainly agree that totalitarianism may manifest itself in restricted travel. But to say it means travel restrictions, or government surveillance, is certainly wrong.
     
  11. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    Oh, "come on, man." :Wink My post shifted nothing. Nor did my wry comment, which would seem unwise to embrace as personally applicable.

    The joke illustrates the basic difference. My post said nothing of definitions. It was all too obviously "application."

    The suggestion of dishonesty could easily be considered a display of ignorance or dishonesty. Better to dispense with that nonsense altogether.
     
  12. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    There is no doubt that the federal government exercises far more authority over the states than is constitutional, but "complete subservience" has not yet been reached even at that level. For now. For how much longer remains to be seen.
     
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  13. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    That's his M.O. Rip, to dishonestly twist and misrepresent what you've said. I'm amazed he hasn't accused you yet of being a RC operative or peddling the council of Trent.
     
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  14. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I wasn't implying you were dishonest. I apologize if it appeared otherwise.

    Insofar as application goes, do you not see any application of a totalitarian mentality among our nation's political parties?
     
  15. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I think too many Christians live in fear of losing their "rights". So much so they forget the "rights" Christians had under the Roman government, without being hostile to that government.

    God is in control, but too many believers want to grasp those reins.
     
  16. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    This is kinda a different question (or perhaps the OP should be two questions).

    The OP asks "are there any limits that you have in mind in which you would view that the government is overstepping its bounds and I will not comply?"

    1. Are there any limits that you have in mind in which you would view that the government is overstepping its bounds?

    Yes. When the government exceeds the limits imposed upon the government by the U.S. Constitution (in terms of the federal government) or the State Constitution (in terms of state governments).

    2. Are there instances when I would not comply with the government?

    Yes. When obedience to the secular authorities God has brought into power constitutes disobedience to God.
     
  17. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    Understood. The posts were not an attempt to be dishonest, only to bring focus to full blown totalitarianism.

    And yes, there is a definite tendency toward it. However, the mentality seems to show its ugly face among the Dem Progressive Left helped by RINOs, both of whom seriously outed themselves two basic ways:

    First, by accusing Trump of being totalitarian because he is pro-America, and

    Second, by pushing obvious measures to undermine the constitutional rights of Americans.​
     
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  18. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Ultimately both parties move towards totalitarian ideas in their desire to control people (essentially this is what totalitarianismis, deriving power through controlling other people). Both the GOP and DNC (and both Trump and Biden) are willing to lie to people in order to gain power. Each has a false narrative they demand the nation believe. That said, the DNC is more superficial with the agenda.

    But in the end neither wants a truly totalitarian state (that would spell their doom). They are one political machine completely dependent on the other party to maintain power.
     
  19. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    Not so. Totalitarianism would not spell doom for a party prepared to wield it. Not if enough rights have been eroded.

    One of the most bizarre aspects of modern American politics is that one party not only survives but thrives on openly pushing for totally undermining COTUS and stripping Americans of their right to be "self-governed." This is coming solely from the Progressive Left--the Dem Progressive Left.
     
  20. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Neither party would go that far (it is not in their best interest) but both would go down that road.
     
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