God never designed or purposed to Save ALL men ever born.

[SavedByGrace]

Is there a sense in which ALL of creation receives benefit/blessings of the death of Christ? Of course. So, if one says He died ON BEHALF (sadly, translated "for" from the Greek instead of "on behalf of") they are correct.

He died INSTEAD (again, translated simply "for" in many English translations but from the Greek meaning "instead of") the elect of the Father is also correct. Those whom Christ died to atone/take away their sin will be saved (or God is a liar) and not one lost.

Amazing that seeing an English word "for" can have so many meanings (more than 54). Confusing. Perhaps why God chose the precise Greek text to narrow down the meaning.

Gal 3:13, "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree"

The Greek preposition ὑπέρ, does also mean FOR, as it can also mean ON BEHALF. To say what you do, is wrong!

KJV FOR

Galatians 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us. For it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

how many say ON BEHALF?

 

[SavedByGrace]

unless someone repents and believes

so Jesus Christ is wrong in Mark 1:15? and Luke 24:47, as in the ESV, and Peter in Acts 2:37-38?

Note, when Peter was asked "What must we DO", he replies, not "DO nothing", but REPENT!

Your "gospel" is false!

 

[SavedByGrace]

Perhaps read Eph 2:8-9 and then tell me what "I MUST DO" (works) that is condition for salvation?

have you ever read Jonah 3:10 in the KJV?

And God saw their WORKS, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

Hebrew מַעֲשֶׂה, is DEED WORK, but not as in MERIT, but the obeying of what God Commands and requires!

 

[George Antonios]

God never designed or purposed to Save ALL men ever born.

Forgive their hellish blasphemy
Who Charge it on the Lamb.

 

[SavedByGrace]

God never designed or purposed to Save ALL men ever born.

Forgive their hellish blasphemy
Who Charge it on the Lamb.

Then Jesus Christ could not have died for ALL, as is clear from many passages!

 

[kyredneck]

Not one more, or not one less person is going to be saved that those the Father has given to the Son.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by the knowledge of himself shall my righteous servant justify many; and he shall bear their iniquities. Isa 53

 

[George Antonios]

Then Jesus Christ could not have died for ALL, as is clear from many passages!

You do realize that was my point, right?

You may not have recognized Charles Wesley's famous poem:

Oh Horrible Decree

Worthy of whence it came!

Forgive their hellish blasphemy

Who Charge it on the Lamb.

The righteous God consigned

Them over to their doom,

And sent the Savior of mankind

To damn them from the womb;

To damn for falling short

Of what they could not do

For not believing the report

Of that which was not true.

 

[KenH]

When Jesus is cited to teach, ". . . This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you. . . ." The lost Judas was included. Luke 22:19-22. The irregular churches deny this.

It is doesn't matter if Judas was present or not. Jesus said "you", which meant everyone for whom He was going to die, and we know that elsewhere the God says that everyone for whom Christ died will be saved. Jesus died for the sheep. He didn't say that He would die for the sheep and the goats. He limited it to the sheep. The Bible has to be taken as whole. If a limiting statement is made, one cannot making it broader.

 

[KenH]

"...most professing Christians today have adopted a theology which makes God a failure! Historically, this system was first taught by Thomas Aquinas among the Catholics and is known as Thomism. Later, among some Protestants these ideas were popularized by James Arminius and others. Today they are known by the term Arminianism (not to be confused with Armenia). This free will system of doctrine is the tie that binds Catholicism and Protestantism together -- and in our day a host of nominal Baptists who also have fallen prey to it.

By carelessness in Bible study on the part of many -- and evident wresting of the Scriptures on the part of some -- many professing Christians now claim to worship a god who is a failure! Often these people slander the Bible by saying it contains two contradictory lines of teaching which cannot be reconciled. They may claim to believe in a sovereign God, but at the same time think mankind has a "free will" by which he can resist God and hinder His working. Thus, they take the Thomist/Arminian view and promote free-willism. (Nowhere does the Bible teach that man's will is free from his depraved nature!)

This free will system of doctrine sets forth a god who is a wimp. He loves everybody (in spite of clear Bible teaching that God has set His love only on His elect people). The god of this theological system is trying to save everybody, but cannot because they will not let him. Therefore this god is a failure!

Most often, adherents to this Catholic system of theology deny vehemently that they teach that their god is a failure. However, occasionally one of their preachers will say in words or substance, "God has done everything He can do to save you. The rest is up to you". Or perhaps their preaching takes the slant that you must "let God" do this or that in your life. If you do not "let God" He cannot accomplish His purpose in your life, according to the god-is-a-failure theory.

As further proof, we quote one prominent "Baptist" (BBF) preacher of some years ago as representative of this Thomist/Arminian view. He wrote, ". . . hell is a ghastly monument to the failure of the Triune God to save the multitudes who are there . . . sinners go to hell because God Almighty couldn't save them! He did all He could. He failed." [Noel Smith, "Universal Atonement," Defender Magazine, Springfield, MO., U.S.A., December, 1956]."

- rest at Is God a Failure? (libcfl.com)

 

[Iconoclast]

When Jesus is cited to teach, ". . . This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you. . . ." The lost Judas was included. Luke 22:19-22. The irregular churches deny this.

Are you suggesting God designed to save Judas,who did not partake of the cup in a worthy manner?

 

[George Antonios]

It is doesn't matter if Judas was present or not. Jesus said "you", which meant everyone for whom He was going to die, and we know that elsewhere the God says that everyone for whom Christ died will be saved. Jesus died for the sheep. He didn't say that He would die for the sheep and the goats. He limited it to the sheep. The Bible has to be taken as whole. If a limiting statement is made, one cannot making it broader.

He died for the sheep in a specific way, just as he died for the church in a specific way.
The problem here is that the Calvinist mindset reads "sheep" as preselected people from eternity past with no possible crossing from goats to sheep.
When Christ says ye are not my sheep, it's the way a soul winner tells a man who rejects the words of God but calls himself a Christian "you don't believe because you are not a Christian". The Jews who argued with Christ were not people who were already following the light of the scriptures, hence they were not sheep.
But that goats can become sheep by the blood of the Lamb is the greatest news ever, and that's what the Calvinistic mindset closes itself to.

 

[Iconoclast]

Then Jesus Christ could not have died for ALL, as is clear from many passages!

What is clear once again is you do not understand the scope and efficacy of the atonement that the Bible speaks of

 

[Iconoclast]

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by the knowledge of himself shall my righteous servant justify many; and he shall bear their iniquities. Isa 53

Once again K red you're trying to confuse them with a very clear scripture

 

[tyndale1946]

Are you suggesting God designed to save Judas,who did not partake of the cup in a worthy manner?

God's design and purpose is to save ALL men... Born again!... Brother Glen

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins:

2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[tyndale1946]

God's design and purpose is to save ALL men... Born again!... Brother Glen

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins:

2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Btw... Kentucky does a good job, let me confuse them a little more!

 

[KenH]

But that goats can become sheep by the blood of the Lamb is the greatest news ever

We have a clear verse where Jesus said that He would specifically die for the sheep. Now, can you show me a verse where the Bible says, "Look at this, a goat has become a sheep?"

As as additional question for you - do you believe that one of these goats that you say can become a sheep can become a goat again?

 

[Iconoclast]

God never designed or purposed to Save ALL men ever born.

Forgive their hellish blasphemy
Who Charge it on the Lamb.

There is nothing to forgive here except the ignorance of those who diminish the work of Christ the perfect complete satisfaction on the cross for all it was intended. God Saves everyone he purpose to save not one will be lost as Jesus told this several times

 

[Iconoclast]

Btw... Kentucky does a good job, let me confuse them a little more!

See there you go once again all the old-timers come out and put it very clear scriptures up and you're ruining the fun of those who try to use philosophy or ideas outside of scripture in place of the scripture you taking all their fun away

 

[KenH]

God's design and purpose is to save ALL men... Born again!... Brother Glen

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins:

Unfortunately, a lot of people who believe in a false gospel think that God did not really mean "dead". They think God meant that the fall of Adam in the Garden of Eden just sprained man's little pinky, or maybe at worst, broke his arm.

 

[tyndale1946]

See there you go once again all the old-timers come out and put it very clear scriptures up and you're ruining the fun of those who try to use philosophy or ideas outside of scripture in place of the scripture you taking all their fun away

AH!... I weeping right now, I really am and I'm sure Kentucky's in tears... Brother Glen