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Featured Question concerning sin.

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by agedman, Jan 15, 2022.

  1. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    In my response to Iconoclast I mentioned that sin has consequences. Romans 1 gives the consequences.

    Although believers would like to consider themselves above such consequences, the consequences remain in effect.

    Therefore the need of John 1.

    Some have the thinking that sin is non-existent in a believer as a result of the work of the blood, but this is error.

    "The soul that sins will surely die." All die.

    The cleansing of unrighteousness would result in a healing. This principle is also part of James' teaching,
    13Is any one of you suffering? He should pray. Is anyone cheerful? He should sing praises. 14Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord.15And the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick. The Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven.
    What happens if they are unsuccessful? Does not the person physically continue to suffer or even the body ceases to be viable?

    For the unbeliever, there is the judgment of whether their name is written or not and eternal condemnation follows.
    For the believer, there is the judgment of Christ as to that done for Him, but no condemnation is upon their eternity.
     
  2. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    You seem to be splitting hairs. God’s forgiveness does not exempt someone from the consequences of sin.

    The idea all sins, past present, future; of all people; are already forgiven doesn’t seem to be supported by scripture, thus the instruction by John to confess your sin and God will faithfully forgive you.

    Peace to you
     
  3. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Jesus died for and in the place of all saved by Him, and while that means all sins are forever forgiven and cleansed, from our perspective need to confess and repent of them in order to keep fellowship with God, as we have an eternal relationship established already
     
  4. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    We will overcome, as jesus already has, that is assurance that all saved shall indeed reach final state saved!
     
  5. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    King david perfect example to us of a man whose sins were fully forgiven, and yet he still experience terrible troubles due to his sins!
     
  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    So why the need of the promise "I will not blot out his name out of the book" if only those who will never become lost are the only names ever to be in the book?
    First reference, Exodus 32:32-33.
    Second reference, Psalms 69:27-28 is commonly identified as the book of life in Revelation. NASB so translates and cross references.
     
  7. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Maybe I misunderstood the question. I agree with your statement concerning maintaining a right relationship with God.

    We have a right relationship with God through faith in Christ. We have indwelling Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth. Our relationship, through Christ, cannot be undone (can’t lose salvation) God disciplines those He lives.

    However, all sins past, present , future already forgiven? Past sins, certainly forgiven at salvation.

    But if present sins are already forgiven, why would they grieve God Holy Spirit? Why does scripture tell us to confess our sin to God and He is faithful to forgive our sin?

    Is there any scripture that supports the doctrine that sin sin, past, present, future are already forgiven for anyone, much less all of humanity?

    peace to you
     
  8. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Your focus is backward. You have all of humanity starting out “saved” and then loosing their salvation when they sin.

    Scripture tells us all of humanity starts lost and God brings His chosen to salvation.

    You are reading a false doctrine into those passages.

    peace to you
     
  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    How do you understand Mark 10:14-15, ". . . Jesus . . . said unto them, Allow the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein. . . ."
     
  10. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    They have all been atoned for and paid for by the shed blood of Christ, but still admonish to walk in the light and keep being cleansed by the blood of Christ
     
  11. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    I am relying on a faulty memory, but isn't this promise concerning the returning of Israel to the land, and in more particular the bringing them into the millennial kingdom?

    I know that some believers consider they abide in this promise, but that doesn't have foundational true abode when taking into consideration the letters of John and Paul and their expressions concerning the believer's living and sinful character.

    There is no condemnation, but there is certainly a remembering of sin when it comes to service and character in the earthly estate.
     
  12. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Are we fully Justified by God and received from the father Imputed righteousness of Christ in full, or is it just partial, and God waits on seeing on how well we act then?
    I see this as justified in full when saved
     
  13. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Your thoughts per your question relative to the following thoughts?

    On the 14th day of the first month the Lamb of God, Jesus died for our sins, thus our Passover was sacrificed for us, thus:
    as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: from 1 Cor 5:7 last part

    V 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

    keep the feast of unleavened bread, seven days, 15th a holy convocation to 21 st a holy convocation. All your life through confession.

    But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
     
  14. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Perhaps you take forgiven as to also mean not suffer any consequence.

    When my children were young, I would forgive them for a breach, but that did not remove the consequences of the behavior.

    When one is redeemed, the breach between God and that person is bridged by belief. However, just because such a bridge is made that cannot be unmade, does not mean that the traffic on the bridge can not be hindered.

    A right relationship between God and Man resolves to Man following the commandments of God, especially the two great commandments. "The one having My commandments and keeping them, he is the one loving Me. Now the one loving Me will be loved by My Father. And I will love him, and will show Myself to him."
     
  15. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Am I suppose to guess the relevance of this verse to the discussion?

    Ok, I’ll try.

    If you believe all children, infants etc go to heaven when they die it is not because they don’t have sin, but because God chose them for salvation and made it happen.

    peace to you
     
  16. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    On the whole. But it is fulfilled now as discribed in Hebrews 8:8-12 and Hebrews 10:16-17. The New Covenant aka the New Testament now. With Jeremiah 31:34 and Hebrews 8:11 as yet future for what you were refering.

    There is what is now. Romans 8:1. And the promise in 1 John 1:8-10 - 1 John 2:1-2 with 1 Timothy 2:4-6. Noting 1 John 1:9 for our on going cleansing.
    Then there is our standing before God through Christ. Romans 4:15, 1 John 3:4-6 where we are counted as sinless not being under the Law, Romans 6:14, ". . . For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. . . ." 1 John 3:6, ". . . Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. . . ." This is a legel standing in Christ, 1 John 3:4, Romans 4:15. Galatians 3:10-13. Colossians 2:13-17. Etc.
     
  17. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Yes. And this has to do with the general redemption by which all mankind was placed in the book of life. But once one comes of age one must be born over, per John 3:3 which is what Jesus was speaking about in Mark 10:15. Hence Nicodemus' question, ". . . How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? . . ." To which Jesus explains, in John 3:5-18. Which has to do with the limited atonement, John 10:15, where Jesus said, ". . .I lay down my life for the sheep. . . ." So the general redemption has a two fold purpose, secondary and primary, as in Romans 8:34, ". . . Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. . . ." Per 1 Timothy 2:4-6.

    1 John 5:4-5, ". . . For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? . . ."

    The new birth so are name never gets removed, Revelation 3:5, ". . . He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. . . ."
     
  18. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    ALL before saved are under the Fall of dam, and are judged as guilty sinners, so all saved even as babes are due to the grace of God period

    IF you view is the right one, why even send out the good news, for if all already in a saved state, why risk them rejecting the message and thus getting lost?
     
  19. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Only if everyone dies as a little child to young too understand good and evil which causes us to be dead in sin.
     
  20. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    There is no scripture to supports doctrine of “age of accountability”. There is no scripture to support your doctrine of general revelation makes everyone saved until they sin.

    peace to you
     
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