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I like the how Justin Martyr described Christ's death as being for the whole human family (for human kind, bar none). This seems a fairly consistent belief throughout the early church.
I suppose it would be fair to say they may not have asked the same questions that we often ask today. But if so, it may be just as fair to question the validity of some of the questions we ask.
I suppose it would be fair to say they may not have asked the same questions that we often ask today. But if so, it may be just as fair to question the validity of some of the questions we ask.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Thats inconsistent. The atonement is particular for all the Father gave the Son in election !
God chooses his own family... If you for one second think you chose God?... By his tender mercy alone... HE CHOSE YOU FIRST!... Brother Glen
1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.
If God didn't love you first, you would be doing the fire dance!
37818
Well-Known Member
Without the general redemption no one can know one has part in the particular redemption.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Thats inconsistent !
37818
Well-Known Member
Not so. Luke 22:20-21. 2 Peter 2:1, Jude 1:4. Etc.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Thats inconsistent.
37818
Well-Known Member
No, it is essential. Without the general redemption no one knows today they were included in the redemption in order to believe they can be saved.
Yes, was a particular and definite salvation being purchased, not a general and potential olne!
37818
Well-Known Member
Not exactly. The particular and definite salvation being purchased was the main purpose of the general redemption. But it was a general redemption and securing salvation of God's sheep. Romans 8:34, 1 Timothy 2:4-5, 1 John 2:2 [1 John 5:19]
Luke 22:20-22. 2 Peter 2:1, Jude 1:4.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
You inconsistent, general atonement and particular atonement. Thats doublemindedness !
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
What makes you come to that conclusion?
37818
Well-Known Member
Scripture. Romans 5:8 for example. Either it applies to any reader. Or it does not. If it doesn't, a yet lost person cannot presume that it would include them. But if it does apply to the modern, not yet saved reader, then you have a particular redemption through the general redemption being promised.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
No, it does not apply to any and all readers. You know that from chapter one.
37818
Well-Known Member
Not at all. The general redemption is essential. As I stated, without the general redemption no one can know to believe they have any part in redemption at all before one believes. In other words one has no redemption for one to believe in. Answer this, before you believed, how would you know you had any part in it? Without the general redemption you have absolutely no way to know Christ died for you.
37818
Well-Known Member
Then you believe Romans 8:5 applies to no one beyond to whom the letter was addressed. What New Testament text tells anyone Christ paid for one's sins?
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
I did not say that either. It was written to believers in Rome, not non-believers. So we, as believers, can apply it to us as well as we meet the same qualifications, aside from not living in Rome.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
How is this argument different from Classic Arminianism?
- All men are fallen
- God draws all men
- Some men believe.
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