Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Except none of those verses speak of such a redemption. You are reading that into the verses.
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Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
I don't tell ANYONE Christ paid for their sins. I call for them to repent and believe, and follow Christ. Is there a verse where someone while evangelizing told a sinner that Christ paid for their sin? I'm asking, I don't know the answer, I do not believe there is.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
That is probably NOT the point that they are making. John Wesley is probably the father of modern "synergystic" theology (the Methodist Church and Holiness Movement sprang from his teaching) but I doubt Wesley ever suggested what you are about evangelism.
We need to reject what others actually believe and not some imaginary caricature of their beliefs.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
So if its the non redemptive then it cant save. There is no reason to put faith in a non redemptive death of Christ.
We would not know who the elect are of the Lord, so would give to all same Gospel, and allow God to do His saving work!
was just clarifying if that is the position was being held here
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Which is what I said.
37818
Well-Known Member
Non-redemptive to those who do not put their faith in Christ. 1 Timothy 4:10, ". . . we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. . . ."
I am of the persuasion that the redemption is provided for all that are called. But only secures redemption for those who believe and so are the chosen, Matthew 22:14.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
You need to define called.
37818
Well-Known Member
No. Either a word means what it means or it don't. In this case, those called for whom Christ died. Matthew 22:14. Which doesn't fit Calvinist error of limited atonement.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
So then you believe what a person does " put faith in" is what makes the death of Christ redemptive, thats salvation by works, by what a person does.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Christ did not die to make sinners savable if they would meet certain conditions. That would be salvation by works, not grace.
He did not die for all sinners without exception so as to make their salvation conditioned upon their believing. He died to save His people from their sins Matt 1:21 and thereby, warranting that they would believe and repent.
He did not die for all sinners without exception so as to make their salvation conditioned upon their believing. He died to save His people from their sins Matt 1:21 and thereby, warranting that they would believe and repent.
37818
Well-Known Member
That is what you believe, not what I believe.
A person believes because Christ's death is redemptive. Because belief is a condtion of accepting God's gift does not make belief the cause of the gift.
37818
Well-Known Member
Belief being a requirement does not make it a cause or a work. Romans 4;5, ". . . to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly . . . ."
37818
Well-Known Member
Believe what? Follow Christ is a work.
37818
Well-Known Member
Per what verse, and what is being read into said verse?
37818
Well-Known Member
Void of the gospel.
1 Corinthians 15:1-4, ". . . the gospel . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . "
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
You admitted it, that is salvation by works, conditioned on man.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
You still conditioning salvation on works, a requirement.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Which is why I said you need to define called.
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