False Religion of Arminianism 2

[SavedByGrace]

No its not rubbish, its the truth !

YOUR "truth", not what the Bible says!

Show from John 3:15-18, WHERE it says that Jesus Christ Died for the "elect" only? Even John Calvin disagress with "Calvinists" on this!

John Calvin, had this to say on this verse:

“That whosoever believeth on him may not perish. It is a remarkable commendation of faith, that it frees us from everlasting destruction. For he intended expressly to state that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life.”

This passage teaches of God's SAVING LOVE for the entire human race. The "WHOEVER believes should be saved", are those from the Kosmos of sinners who trust in Jesus Christ as their personal Saviour.

Those who argue that Kosmos here only refers to the "elect", have the problem that out of this "Kosmos", of "elect", are are only SOME who will actually believe and be saved, and the others of this "elect", will be LOST!

This is what Robert Dabney, the Reformed theologian wrote:

“In Jno.iii.16, make ‘the world’ which Christ loved, to mean ‘the elect world’, and we reach the absurdity, that some of the elect may not believe, and perish…since Christ made expiation for every man” (Systematic Theology, p.525)

 

[SavedByGrace]

Im not here to talk about me , however judging on what you post publically, you condition salvation on what a person does. Thats works salvation and anti biblical !

Dude, it is YOU who present a FALSE salvation. Have you never read Mark 1:15?, "and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; REPENT and BELIEVE (FAITH) in the Gospel.”. And, Luke 24:47? "and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be Preached in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem". And Acts 2:37-38? "
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we DO? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit"

THIS is what the Holy Bible says on HOW a lost sinner is born-again. NOT the so called "reformed" FALSE view!

 

[DaveXR650]

If you believe that "whosoever" means whosoever then "world" in John 3:16 can mean the elect or everyone. You are a whosoever.

Also, repent and believe are clearly conditions of salvation if you read a Bible. But the Bible also says you must be born again. Arminianism and regular non-Calvinist Baptists teach that without the work of the Holy Spirit no one gets saved. So if "you must be born again" means you must be born again and you can't born yourself then saying the work of the Spirit comes first is not rubbish either.

 

[SavedByGrace]

If you believe that "whosoever" means whosoever then "world" in John 3:16 can mean the elect or everyone. You are a whosoever.

Also, repent and believe are clearly conditions of salvation if you read a Bible. But the Bible also says you must be born again. Arminianism and regular non-Calvinist Baptists teach that without the work of the Holy Spirit no one gets saved. So if "you must be born again" means you must be born again and you can't born yourself then saying the work of the Spirit comes first is not rubbish either.

The Holy Spirit CONVICTS the sinner of their sins, as Jesus clearly says in John 16:8-9, "And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they do not believe in Me"

We see this in Acts 2:37 " Now when they heard this (the Gospel Message), they were cut to the heart (convicted by the Holy Spirit), and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?”

Acts 7:54, "When they heard these things (the Gospel Message) they were cut to the heart (convicted by the Holy Spirit)"

Without this CONVICTION by the Holy Spirit, NO sinner can or will ever respond to the Gospel Message in and of themselves!

 

[atpollard]

Typical reformed MISUSE of the Bible!

This is just ONE verse in the Bible, where Paul is writing to BELIEVERS at the Church in Rome. It is clear to those who are not blinded, that John 3:16, is about "everyone without exception", which is Calvin's very words on this text! YET, even those who call themselves "Calvinists", disregard what Calvin says, because it is not what their WARPED, man-made THEOLOGY teaches!

I have yet to see ONE Calvinist show that John 3:16, is not about God's Saving Love for every single human being! They will try to TWIST this to their own THEOLOGY, but will always FAIL!

Use the WHOLE Bible to show that the Bible says, rather than MISUSE verses for your personal NONSENSE!

Why on earth are you attacking me?
I quoted a scripture verse and asked two exegetical questions about it. Is it now EVIL to ask questions?

Chill out. Take a swipe from an Ativan Salt Lick to “enhance your calm”.

 

[Van]

Yet another effort to turn being drawn (attracted) by God into a works based salvation. Never ending twaddle.

Could "whosoever" refer to to whosoever within God's preselected group? Nope Whosoever refers to everyone believing. Thus to limit the scope to Calvinism's false claim, only the preselected elect can believe. Thus a false claim supported by a false claim. And so it goes...

 

[atpollard]

how about trying to show from the Teachings of the Holy Bible, that your FALSE teachings of salvation are in the Word of God???

Not appropriate for a thread on Arminianism (since my biblically support beliefs are Particular Baptist). Unlike you, I prefer to at least ATTEMPT to stay on topic rather than deliberately derailing threads with inappropriate challenges.

We could really use an articulate Arminian to defend their cause, unfortunately, we just get your inflammatory diatribes instead.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Why on earth are you attacking me?
I quoted a scripture verse and asked two exegetical questions about it. Is it now EVIL to ask questions?

Chill out. Take a swipe from an Ativan Salt Lick to “enhance your calm”.

so WHO is the WORLD in John 3:16? if not "everyone without exception"?

 

[SavedByGrace]

Not appropriate for a thread on Arminianism (since my biblically support beliefs are Particular Baptist). Unlike you, I prefer to at least ATTEMPT to stay on topic rather than deliberately derailing threads with inappropriate challenges.

We could really use an articulate Arminian to defend their cause, unfortunately, we just get your inflammatory diatribes instead.

I have NEVER in my 40 long years of being a believer, read anything on Arminianism, and I am NOT one as I don't even know WHAT the teach or believe!

 

[atpollard]

I have yet to see ONE Calvinist show that John 3:16, is not about God's Saving Love for every single human being!

Even if God LOVES “everyone without exception” (which is not as clear in that verse as you claim), John 3:16 says God saves “whosoever” … which is NOT “everyone without exception”.

Your victory lap is premature.

 

[atpollard]

I have NEVER in my 40 long years of being a believer, read anything on Arminianism, and I am NOT one as I don't even know WHAT the teach or believe!

Then why are you posting on a thread titled “FALSE RELIGION OF ARMINIANISM”? Everyone but you is talking about Arminianism.

 

[atpollard]

Here you go, for anyone without an “Arminian Clue” …

What is Arminianism (Theopedia)?

 

[SavedByGrace]

Even if God LOVES “everyone without exception” (which is not as clear in that verse as you claim), John 3:16 says God saves “whosoever” … which is NOT “everyone without exception”.

Your victory lap is premature.

see your misuse of this yet again?

God loves the entire human race with a Saving Love, which is CLEAR to all those who are not biased by "Calvinism". It is only the WHOEVER who believe that will be saved. Can you not get this?

 

[SavedByGrace]

Then why are you posting on a thread titled “FALSE RELIGION OF ARMINIANISM”? Everyone but you is talking about Arminianism.

Dude, I am commenting on the THEOLOGY that is here, and not interested in Arminianism.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Here you go, for anyone without an “Arminian Clue” …

What is Arminianism (Theopedia)?

I have a broad knowledge, but never read any books on or by them

 

[atpollard]

so WHO is the WORLD in John 3:16? if not "everyone without exception"?

Either:

• Everyone without exception (God loves every person that has ever lived … except Esau [Malachi 1:3] ).
• All people without distinction: God’s love is not restricted to the Jews - His chosen people - but extends to all of the children of Abraham BY FAITH … a multitude from every tribe and tongue and people and nation [Revelation 5:9] … but NOT every person without exception since it excludes the “vessels of wrath” [Romans 9:19-24].

 

[atpollard]

see your misuse of this yet again?

God loves the entire human race with a Saving Love, which is CLEAR to all those who are not biased by "Calvinism". It is only the WHOEVER who believe that will be saved. Can you not get this?

How can you correct me by insulting me and then saying EXACTLY THE SAME THING that I just said?

Talk to the hand.

 

[atpollard]

Yet another effort to turn being drawn (attracted) by God into a works based salvation. Never ending twaddle.

Could "whosoever" refer to to whosoever within God's preselected group? Nope Whosoever refers to everyone believing. Thus to limit the scope to Calvinism's false claim, only the preselected elect can believe. Thus a false claim supported by a false claim. And so it goes...

Ooh look … The Trolls have arrived to crap all over the discussion with empty and unsupported pontifications.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Either:

• Everyone without exception (God loves every person that has ever lived … except Esau [Malachi 1:3] ).
• All people without distinction: God’s love is not restricted to the Jews - His chosen people - but extends to all of the children of Abraham BY FAITH … a multitude from every tribe and tongue and people and nation [Revelation 5:9] … but NOT every person without exception since it excludes the “vessels of wrath” [Romans 9:19-24].

Firstly, if you check both the Hebrew and Greek, you will see that when it says "hate", as in Mal 1:3, quoted by Paul in Romans 9:13, it is used of "comparison/degree". Like when Jesus says, "“If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple" (Luke 14:26), Same Greek word μισέω in both places. Jesus does not mean "hate literally" (1 John 3:15, Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.), but that we Love Him more than anyone and anything else! As He says to Peter, "So when they had eaten their breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of Jonah, do you love me more than these?” (John 21:15)

Secondly, the entire world is Jew or Gentile, if you are not the one, then you are the other. There is no reason, except for personal theology, that John 3:16 WORLD means not the human race as every individual.

Thirdly, even the "vessels of wrath", it says that God, "endured with much longsuffering". WHY would He even bother with these, who as the verse goes on to say, are "ready for destruction"???

 

[atpollard]

Thirdly, even the "vessels of wrath", it says that God, "endured with much longsuffering". WHY would He even bother with these, who as the verse goes on to say, are "ready for destruction"???

You only need to read one more verse for the Bible to provide the answer:

Romans 9:
22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23 And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.​